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25 new of 104 responses total.
gull
response 38 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 21 13:11 UTC 2002

This could get interesting.  I mean, what we have here is probably the most
widespread example of popular disobediance of a law since Prohibition.
Widespread prosecutions are going to be highly politically unpopular, and
you may suddenly see people caring enough about this issue to actually
pressure their representatives to not knuckle under quite so thoroughly to
the MPAA and RIAA.  (Other than the geeks who already care, I mean.)
krj
response 39 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 21 21:08 UTC 2002

Declan McCullagh and Cnet again.   The RIAA is asking a federal court
to compel Verizon to disclose the identity of a user who the RIAA 
believes was sharing music files.   Verizon has declined to honor
the RIAA's request under the "notice and take down" provisions 
of the DMCA, because (as I've written before) the plain language 
of that law does not cover material resident on the ISP customer's 
machine, only material residing on the ISP's server. 
 
The RIAA believes the DMCA rules should apply, of course, and this
is not such an outrageous stretch that the court would dismiss it
without a second thought; it depends on how literalist the court 
wants to be, given that P2P software -- serving up files from the 
customer's own computer -- wasn't worried about when the DMCA was 
written.

Still, this is another sign that the RIAA has decided to go hunting
for individual file sharing users; they have decided they have to 
endure the probable public backlash.

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-954658.html?tag=cd_mh



krj
response 40 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 22 00:08 UTC 2002

The Washington Post has an interesting overview piece:
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42239-2002Aug20.html
 
"A New Tactic in the Download War:  Online 'Spoofing' Turns The Tables
 on Music Pirates."
 
Nothing terribly new, but it rounds up some choice material.
The hook/lead is about the appearance of bogus / fake MP3 files on 
the file swapping networks; the music companies are not 'fessing up 
to being behind this, but the idea is to clog the networks and 
get users to waste time, get frustrated, and go to the CD store.

(Digression:  I get the impression that the music industry thinks they
 can fight P2P file sharing to a draw with this tactic, but I have not 
 run into anyone complaining about such bogus files yet.)
 
Quote, after talking a bit about the music industry's 
quest for an uncopyable CD:
 

          "All this smacks of desperation," says Eric Garland,
          president of BigChampagne, a company hired by major
          labels to measure online file-sharing traffic. "When you've
          got a consumer movement of this magnitude, when tens of
          millions of people say, 'I think CD copying is cool and I'm
          within my rights to do it,' it gets to the point where you have
          to say uncle and build a business model around it rather than
          fight it." 

       ...


          The record labels have been spurred to action by figures
          they find terrifying: The number of "units shipped" -- CDs
          sent to record stores or directly to consumers -- fell by more
          than 6 percent last year, and it's widely expected to fall 6 to
          10 percent more by the end of 2002.

Most intriguing to me is the mention of a new MP3 recorder, the Ripflash,
priced at $179.   Google points to their website:
 
     http://www.pogoproducts.com/ripflash.html

This is, to my knowledge, the first self-contained MP3 recorder which
touts decent music quality.  As such, it's probably flatly illegal under
the Audio Home Recording Act (AHRA) because MP3 files do not incorporate
Serial Copy Management, to prohibit endless recopying.  I've seen about
two previous stand-alone MP3 recorders, and both of them were positioning
themselves as voice-only recorders for dictation and recordings of 
meetings, presumably in an attempt to stay under the RIAA's radar.
 
I might digress some more and mention that the AHRA is why so many people
are playing and recording music on their computers.  The AHRA mandated
that consumer digital audio recorders had to prohibit making copies of 
copies (Serial Copy Management System, or SCMS).  No product designed 
to conform to this law has had more than modest niche success in the 
market:
 
    Digital Compact Cassette is dead.
    Digital Audio Tape is a marginal pro-audio format.
    MiniDisc appeals to a small number of gadget freaks or people who 
       need really portable, decent-quality recording.
       I know about half a dozen MD users, including myself.
       The format appears to be fading; Best Buy is slower and slower on 
         restocking the Minidisc blank media
    Audio component CD recorders just haven't gotten any market impact,
       despite the glossy TV ads from Philips.

However, the AHRA exempted general-purpose computers from having to 
implement copy controls; thus, once the PC got a bit more powerful,
the race to move music into computers was on.   Consumers, almost
unanimously, have rejected Congress' intent that they should not have 
access to unrestricted digital copying; they have rejected this by 
the tens of millions.  To crib from someone else:  we are starting to 
move into real "consent of the governed" territory here.

(Sorry, I'm blathering again.)
tpryan
response 41 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 22 03:53 UTC 2002

        Go ahead and blather, it is massive peacefull civil disobedience.  Does
congress want to give me more laws to ignore?
krj
response 42 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 22 15:10 UTC 2002

The Rolling Stones are the last major rock band whose CDs still sound
crummy.  Slashdot reports on a plan to fix that starting in a week or 
so, with pointers to a story in Slate.  The new remastered Stones 
CDs will be done as dual layer CD/SACD discs.  SACD take an interesting
approach to copy prevention: they incorporate a "physical watermark,"
a bit pattern which is not part of the musical data stream, to 
identify an authorized copy.  SACD players will refuse to play any 
disc lacking the physical watermark bit-pattern. 

(Oh, SACD: Super Audio CD, yet another new format.  Reviews rave
about the sound quality.)

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/08/21/2012213.shtml?tid=141
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2069628
http://www.bitwareoz.com/sacd/faq.html
other
response 43 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 22 17:25 UTC 2002

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/08/22/1321224.shtml?tid=126

Technology Review has an article 
(http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/prototype10902.asp?p=7) 
about a new CD and DVD copy protection system
(http://www.doc-witness.com/tech.htm) by Doc-Witness 
(http://www.doc-witness.com/), where the disc itself has a smart card on 
it. The card checks if a request is valid, and then returns a key to 
decrypt the contents of the disc. It apparently works with standard 
drives.
mdw
response 44 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 22 17:34 UTC 2002

Is this an online or offline system?  By online, I mean that they
contact some sort of server, either via phone line or internet.  By
offline, I mean that the box in the store contains everything needed to
make the disk work.
scott
response 45 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 22 19:06 UTC 2002

Offline.
gull
response 46 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 22 20:40 UTC 2002

I'm one of the people who is of the opinion that the perceived sound
improvement from SACD discs is due to the placebo effect.  Record
companies really like the idea, though, because they're hoping to sell
people all the same albums over again.  And audiophiles, who have always
been suspicious of regular CDs, will sign on.
mdw
response 47 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 22 20:48 UTC 2002

If it's an offline thing, it won't be long until people figure out how
to compromise it.  Right off-hand, I'm not sure what would stop people
from simply ripping the tracks once decrypted - and I take it this thing
must come with a software driver to handle the decryption part.
mcnally
response 48 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 23 04:28 UTC 2002

  But that would be illegal!  :-p
twinkie
response 49 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 24 18:15 UTC 2002

re: 46

SACD and DVD-Audio both sound better than conventional CD's. Though, the
increased quality varies, based on what you're actually listening to.

I'm guessing the difference between the SACD and CD versions of the Rolling
Stones disc would be negligible, especially on a $500 "Theater In A Box"
system. Though, I wouldn't put it past Sony to master the SACD version with
a bit more treble and bass, to create the impression of brighter sound and
"punchier" bass on a cheap system.

However, jazz and orchestral music does sound better on advanced audio
formats. I briefly owned a SACD player and noticed a difference on my home
system (Harmon/Kardon amp, Yamaha NS-100XT speakers, etc.) but not to the
extent that I saw the value in keeping a $500 CD player, and paying extra
money for the few SACD's I could find, just to have them not work in my car
or computer.

re: 47 

I wouldn't be too sure of that. First off, even if you do rip the audio (which
would be possible today, if computers had an audio format that could
accomodate a frequency rate that high) where are you going to play the tracks,
other than on your computer?

Also, consider that the watermark is physical, not digital. The Sony
Playstation uses discs with physical copy protection, and nearly seven years
later, the best anyone's come up with is a chip that requres substantial
modification to the system. 

tod
response 50 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 24 18:20 UTC 2002

This response has been erased.

gull
response 51 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 24 19:15 UTC 2002

If it sounds better to you, great.  The claims made for it seem to
contradict what's known about how the human ear works, though, so I'm
skeptical.  I also know there are a lot of tricks they can do to make it
*seem* to sound better -- one easy one is to make the output level from the
player slightly higher when playing SACDs instead of regular discs.  People
will perceive the slightly louder music as "clearer".  Tinkering with the
mix is, as you mentioned, another option.
tod
response 52 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 24 19:23 UTC 2002

This response has been erased.

gull
response 53 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 24 19:36 UTC 2002

If I remember right, they're encoded at 24 bits instead of the 16 on a
regular CD, and at a 2.4 MHz sample rate instead of 44.1 kHz.  Note that
44.1 kHz is enough to accurately record any sound up to just under the
Nyquist limit of 22,050 Hz, and the human ear can only hear up to 20,000 Hz. 
Also, 16 bits is thought to have about 3 dB more dynamic range than the
human ear can actually pick out in music.  Hence my skepticism.

Mostly this is being pushed by record companies.  When CDs came out they
were able to sell everyone new copies of all the albums they'd previously
bought on LP -- profit with no expenditure on promotion or finding
new talent.  They're hoping to cash in on that again by getting everyone to
upgrade to SACD.
tod
response 54 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 24 20:37 UTC 2002

This response has been erased.

twinkie
response 55 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 24 21:02 UTC 2002

re: 51 / 53

That's something I've been confused by. I distinctly recall CD's being touted
as "perfect", in that they're able to reproduce the entire range of listenable
music. IIRC, the *only* limitation of CD's is the masters they're recorded
from. (Does anyone else remember the AAD/ADD/DDD specifications that used to
be printed on CD's?)

This is the same reason I don't entirely understand how a $2,000 "reference"
CD player can produce notably better sound than a $60 CD-changer. I mean, it's
just a digital stream. You can't really convert it in different ways. Yes,
I understand that the mechanism that turns that stream in to something my
receiver understands can be of varying quality. It's the reason my 200-disc
changer is connected with a fiberoptic cable, instead of two RCA cables. But
there's only so much improvement you can build atop the core technology.
Certainly not $1,940 worth.

In terms of pure technology and understanding of human hearing, I don't see
how it's possible for SACD (or DVD-Audio) to sound better than a CD, except
under very rare circumstances where the music pushes just beyond what a CD
is capable of. But for whatever reason, it does. There is a presence in
non-vocal music on SACD that isn't quite the same on CD. It seems more
lifelike, although I can't figure out how it possibly can be, other than
tinkering with the mastering of the disc.

Although I'm not yet willing to buy in to a Sony/Philips/RIAA consipracy, I've
always believed that mass-produced CD's haven't been mastered to their fullest
potential since the CD format gained complete consumer acceptance. It seems
noticably coincidental to me that an artist's debut album sounds (in terms
of clarity) better than following albums more often than not. Conspiracy?
Probably not. Laziness? Absolutely. Why spend days mastering, and remastering
something that you already know people are going to buy either way?

With SACD's (and formerly, CD's) there was a degree of uncertainty there. They
cost more than other formats, weren't as versatile in terms of being copyable
and/or playable in cars or portable units, and the players cost more money
than most people spend on components.

Writing this made me remember something...so I just tested my theory. Janet
Jackson's "Rhythm Nation" sounds very, VERY crisp and clear, despite the fact
that it's an AAD master from 1989. The same song ("Alright") sounds muddier
(albeit, slightly) on "Design Of A Decade" which was produced in 1995.

In 1989, you were lucky to pick up a component CD player for less than $150.
Portable and integrated CD systems were much more expensive (and prohibitively
so, for the teen audience that record companies target), and there wasn't
exactly a slew of CD's to be bought. In 1995, you could get a nice integrated
portable system, or disc changer for half of that price, and there were tons
of CD's available. Most anyone who wanted a CD player could afford one, and
because of that, there was no real need to convince anyone of the clarity that
CD's provided, because you could sell them on the convenience factor.

Whether the laziness was slowly accepted as cost-effective, or planned all
along is probably unknowable. Or maybe I've just been listening to CD's for
so long, that I associate older discs with how amazingly clear they seemed
to be. I dunno.

re: 52 

Super Audio Compact Disc, IIRC

scott
response 56 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 24 23:24 UTC 2002

Well, there are a couple things "wrong" with "perfect" 16-bit 44MHz CDs.

One thing a few audiophiles have claimed is that human hearing doesn't stop
at 20KHz, and even if it does there are phasing artifacts well above that.
So, some people doggedly hang onto their vinyl since it doesn't have that
fixed 22KHz theoretical limit.

The issue about CD players is that while the digital stream always decodes
the same, not all D-A converters are created equal.  The cheaper units tend
to suffer more from noise from other parts of the circuitry, nonlinear effects
from the semiconductors, and non-optimum analog circuitry.  

That being said, my hearning is better than most people's and I can't hear
any limitations.  
gull
response 57 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 25 00:13 UTC 2002

Higher-end CD players tend to have better tracking subsystems, too.  My
1986-vintage Sanyo player, which was probably pretty expensive new, will
play discs that my Discman gives up on, and it skips less often.  This may
have something to do with the fact that the Sanyo splits the laser into
three beams for tracking purposes, while the Discman multiplexes a single
one.

There's also some room for tweaking in the analog filters that have to
follow the D/A converters.
goose
response 58 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 25 00:46 UTC 2002

Filters that affect the passband.  Power supply design.  Stable clock.

I'm not saying it's worth an extra $2k, but there is more than one way
to skin a cat, and my $600 player does sound better than my $60 player.

I have to agree though that the record compaines are in the business to make
money and sell you more formats.  That said, SACD and DVD-A are improvements.
IS it worth it to most people?  Doubtful.
polytarp
response 59 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 25 01:41 UTC 2002

What is twinkie doing here?
i
response 60 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 26 00:07 UTC 2002

CD's:
If you're into any type of music that doesn't have a pretty compressed
dynamic range (classical vs. pop for example), the 16-bit CD's ability
to make *both* the really quiet parts (like some wind instrument solos)
and the really loud parts sound good is pretty limited.  I've certainly
experienced this (though i can't rule out that it's just poor quality
production work).
My understanding is that there's plenty of room for a niche market
selling the same music on the same media, but with all the slip-ups/
short-cuts/etc. in the production work corrected.  Some perfectionists
have money. 
Younger people often have hearing that goes up to 23+KHz.  CD's and CD
players have to fade out quite a ways below that to avoid wierd effects
from their 22KHz limit.  
Even if the digital music on the CD is "perfect", it's technically 
impossible to convert that to an analog signal with 0% error.  More
money can buy you less error...how much you got and what's good enough?
twinkie
response 61 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 26 03:32 UTC 2002

I think that's bordering on pretentious. 

Yes, any D/A conversion is going to have some degree of error, but we're
not comparing something with a 10% error rate to a 1% error rate. We're closer
to 0.73% vs. 0.03%.

russ
response 62 of 104: Mark Unseen   Aug 26 10:49 UTC 2002

I used to be able to hear the ultrasonic motion detectors in Fiegel's,
but I didn't have anything resembling good musical taste at the time.

I don't know how well the music industry is going to be able to force
the genie back into the bottle.  CD is more than good enough for most
people, and huge numbers find MP3 acceptable.  SACD may be an
improvement, but I doubt that very many people will care enough to want
to replace their legacy CD players and collections.  As long as people
want to play their old CDs, even SACD players will have to support the
format; that will make all the watermarking in the world useless.
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