response 38 of 91:

Oct 5 23:11 UTC 1999

I think the reasons for vegetarianism vary - personal health, planetary
health, animal rights, etc., and this influences whether the vegetarian is
trying to convert other people.  Someone eating vegetarian because the doctor
said to is less likely to proselytize than is a pet lover.

response 40 of 91:

Oct 6 03:10 UTC 1999

What happened to the word "feminist"?  Just what I was asking in another
item!  Dan is reading my mind!  ...but I agree with Jan.  Scary feminists
get more media attention than saner ones -- this does not mean they are
more numerous.

Regarding rural areas: during the most recent cross-country drive, we
stopped at a deli in Dalhart, Texas.  I attempted to order a cheese
sandwich.  They looked at me blankly.  "We have ham, turkey, BLT, and..."
"Um, no, actually, I'd like a cheese sandwich."  "Well, yes, but what kind
of meat do you want on it?"  "CHEESE SANDWICH!  Two slices of bread, one
slice of cheese!  Please?  Pretty please?"  I have no idea how vegans
manage to survive.

I'm not even goign to get into France...

response 42 of 91:

Oct 6 05:26 UTC 1999

Generally, I try not to be militant about being a vegetarian, but I
found when I visited my family that I had to be militant, or I'd get the
short end of the stick at meal-times.  It's not that they meant to, but
taking the meat out of a typical meal != a good vegetarian diet.  I
think I eventually got the last laugh; I had a pretty decent home-made
tofu stir-fry when the rest of them were "enjoying" some fairly awful
take-out chinese.

response 44 of 91:

Oct 6 14:16 UTC 1999

Re #41: "I can't see how it would taste like cheese."  I have a hard time
seeing how anything tastes - I have to taste it.  :) :) :)

response 46 of 91:

Oct 6 17:52 UTC 1999

I think that people who are vegetarian or vegan for reasons of their own
health are less likely to eat in restaurants, which do not generally offer
healthy food.  Why pay someone to put two slices of bread around some cheese
for you anyway?  For the same price you can make 10 of your own sandwiches.

response 48 of 91:

Oct 6 22:50 UTC 1999

  Absolutely.  How inconsiderate of them not to change their customs to
  accomodate his morally superior position!

  It's a toss-up, I guess.  He's asking them to all change their behavior
  to accomodate his preferences (rude) and they're ignoring his request
  (also potentially rude.)  A more sensible course of action (had he not
  found a meatless appetizer) would perhaps have been to ask the kitchen
  to prepare his entree in advance of the mail course.  Shifting the
  burden to the restaurant (who are being paid to be accomodating) isn't
  anywhere near as rude as asking his family to change their meal because
  of his wishes.

response 50 of 91:

Oct 7 03:15 UTC 1999

Eep. Prague wasn't that way. Most places had vegetarian options, just 
not too many of them. Ireland, however... had I been a vegetarian, I'd 
have starved to death. 

response 52 of 91:

Oct 9 18:32 UTC 1999

ref #23: OK, I should have said, "as long as your dairy is kosher". And I
didn't mention the utensils because that's implied by the term. Sheesh.

response 54 of 91:

Oct 11 05:27 UTC 1999

Proteins needs can vary quite a bit.  Heavy exercise can increase one's
protein needs (both to repair damage caused by the exercise, and to
increase muscle bulk.) Getting part of one's daily calorie requirements
from protein can also be a good thing, because protein takes the longest
to digest and therefore staves off hunger the longest.

Some vegetable sources are more complete protein sources than others.
Corn, for instance, is particularly non-complete (but can be improved by
reacting it with alkali, if done carefully).  Getting complete amino
acids, though, is not usually a big problem.

What's actually harder is getting all the necessary vitamins.  Corn,
rice, etc., are not particularly good sources of most vitamins.  A and C
aren't too hard to get, as most fresh vegtables are good sources of one
or the other of these.  A is fat soluable and the body is pretty good at
recycling it, so it's not critical to have it at every meal.  A raw
carrot, now and then, is a perfectly adequate way to get sufficient A.
C is water soluable, and the body will flush excess C away rather than
storing it.  So it's more important to get C on a regular basis.  Citrus
fruit, onions and green peppers are all decent sources of C.  One of the
*best* sources of C and A turns out to be raw violet leaves.  These are
actually far more concentrated than orange juice, so a little goes a
long way.  I find in practice that the hardest vitamins to get are some
of the B vitamins, and I solve this by having brewer's yeast.  A
tablespoon or so of this in water is a reasonable beverage.  One of the
odd things is that it tastes *much* better if I'm running a bit low on B
vitamins.

response 56 of 91:

Oct 11 16:02 UTC 1999

Meat does not contain any vitamin C that I know of.
Alkali-treated corn has more niacin.  I did not know that it affected amino
acid content, but perhaps it converts one acid to another.
Good sources of C:  papaya, broccoli, brussels sprouts, peppers, strawberries,
cabbage, mustard greens, turnip greens.  Number 29 is raw oysters, one cup
of which provides less than one cup of broccoli.  (The oysters must have
feasted on vegetables recently).  Beef liver has a small amount, chicken none.
The best sources of niacin, a B vitamin:
mushrooms, wheat bran, brewer's yeast, tuna, chicken, liver, salmon,
asparagus, oysters, bok choy, shripmp, romaine lettuce, peanuts, peaches,
peppers, cauliflower.

Thiamin (ranked by amount per calorie):  yeast, romanie, ham, wheat germ,
mushroom,s bacon, asparagus, sunflower seeds, green peas, pork, alfalfa seeds,
lettuce, mustard greens, tomato, squash, bean sprouts, broccoli.
Ranked by total amount:  pork chop or ham, 3 oz, equals 1/4 cup sunflower seeds
or 2 cups green peas or black beans.
Daily thiamin requiremement is 1.0-1.5 mg (higher value is for teenage males).
One tsp brewer's yeast gives 1.25 mg.  Someone averse to eating brewer's yeast
(recommended for vegans) might be advised to eat meat for the thiamin content,
but a vitamin pill would do as well, if they did not want to eat beans or
peas.  One way to get 1.0 mg is one potato, one cup squash, one cup oatmeal,
and half a slice of watermelon.  A whole slice of watermelon surprisingly hass
half your daily requirement!  No wonder Jim eats so much watermelon.  He says
he will have some right now for breakfast.  He eats not a slice but a quart
or so of watermelon.

Grains have little thiamin or niacin, which is why you are supposed to combine
them with beans, not just for the amino acid balance.  

The other B vitamins are common in vegetables:  riboflavin in dark leafy
greens (one cup beet greens has mor than a cup of milk);  b6 in cabbage family
(cabbage, bok choy, turnip and mustard greens, cauliflower, broccoli) and
peppers and awhole lot in bananas, navy beans, potatos, again watermelon, soy
beans, spinach, dried figs (with far fewer calories than in meat, another
common source of B6)  
B6 requirement  about 2.0-2.2 mg/day, or three cups of beans, or one cup plus
a potato and a slice of watermelon.  or 1.5 pounds of steak (which would
provide most of your calorie requirements at the same time)

Folacin - dark leafy vegetables, almost none in meat.  Spinach 262 mg/cup,
chicken breast 3 mg.  Americans tend to have folacin deficiency.

B12 is found in animal products but you can buy brewer's yeast with B12 added
(it is grown on a B12 containing medium) or take pills, and it is also found
in the dirt on fresh vegetables, and in tempeh grown the old-fashioned way.
(B12 is produced by bacteria).

Vitamin A is found in liver.  THe liver stores it, after it has been consumed
in the form of dark green or orange vegetables and fruits.

You would have to be eating a really unbalanced diet not to get enough
vitamins (other than B12) from non-animal sources, other than possibly niacin
and thiamin.  Thiamin can also be produced by the body from the amino acid
tryptophan.  The daily requirement (sans tryptophan) is available also in 4
oz peanuts.

Fat also digests slowly, for those who cannot be bothered to eat often.

response 58 of 91:

Oct 11 19:13 UTC 1999

I heard Sri Lankans produce their own vitamin C.  I think most mammals produce
their own, at least the carnivores do.  Eskimos eat stomach contents.
We just ordered 25 pounds of raw peanuts, bulk.  They are good in stir fries,
or toasted and mixed with raisins as a late night snack.

response 60 of 91:

Oct 11 22:13 UTC 1999

I've been reading about low-carbohydrate diets lately, and am seriously
considering changing my diet to one.  Basically, the idea is that eating too
many carbohydrates stimulates insulin production, which in turn, promotes fat
production.  This seems to fit with my experience, especially of late.  My diet
is relatively high in carbohydrates, and although I get a lot of exercise, I
seem to be getting fatter.  

There are several books out on the subject, and basically what they call for is
less carbs and more protein, along with some fat.  A diet properly balanced
helps better regulate your insulin production, and thereby how fat you are.