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Grex > Helpers > #140: Grex System Problems - Spring 2005 | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 457 responses total. |
jep
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response 356 of 457:
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Jun 2 19:07 UTC 2005 |
re resp:351: In fairness to the staff members such as STeve, training
someone else to do a job is hard. If he doesn't have time to fix
newuser, he probably doesn't have time to teach someone else how to fix
it.
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twenex
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response 357 of 457:
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Jun 2 19:16 UTC 2005 |
Grex needs to bulk up it's core, but the "in" group here has as one of
it's very highest principles than no one else "gets it". The silent
majority of us peripheral users support their belief, too.
Grex needs to bulk up it's core, but the "in" group here has as one of
it's very highest principles than no one else "gets it". The silent
majority of us peripheral users support their belief, too.
If that's true, which it very well may be, then it's the "in group" that need
to "get it". Many of our most regular users (myself included) have some level
of UN*X expertise. Many more of them, perhaps excluding only the trolls,
subscribe to some version of our "philosophy". Indeed, iirc, complaints about
the (perceived or real) abuse of the system or its principles have, when
specific, usually come from the users and been directed at staff, not the other
way around; other staff have also either kept silent on the issue or defended
the target(s) of the complaints.
It's easier to inculcate technical expertise than philosophy. Perhaps none of
those outside the "in group" have the expertise to hack on a binary-only copy
of newuser, but given that those who do won't last forever
(for whatever reason), who cares? It may be time to start replacing our
proprietary sw with open-source versions, or at least with versions which have
source code open, but only to staff. The more sysadmins we have, the more
time they will collectively be able to spend on projects like this. If staff
want more colleagues, and they don't accept that people who might have the
ability to join them might not know Grex inside out but can be shown the ropes,
and that their expertise can grow over time (they can learn by doing), they are
going to *have* to accept it. If not, I can only hope, that those users who
care revolt, and set up their own system, a la Grex, just like what happened in
the early nineties to M-Net. I don't know if there's enough momentum for that
to happen, though.
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tod
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response 358 of 457:
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Jun 2 19:25 UTC 2005 |
re #357
revolt, and set up their own system, a la Grex, just like what happened in
the
early nineties to M-Net.
I think you got it backwards. There is too much apathy and ego invested here
for skilled volunteers to "step on toes" I mean..."get trained" by existing
staff.
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rcurl
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response 359 of 457:
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Jun 2 19:29 UTC 2005 |
Re #356: that's a recipe for nothing ever getting fixed when current staff
fades away. But I don't believe it. I suspect there are quite a few
members that need only know what the fault is, and could look at the code
and fix it. OK - ask them to do a "beta" fix, and STeve can check it out
and test it, before installation. But things would move forward - and
some new people would learn how Grex software works.
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tod
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response 360 of 457:
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Jun 2 19:46 UTC 2005 |
I bet Mike McNally could fix newuser without too much tutorial on where it
is and operates but you don't see anyone welcoming him with open arms.
It's a shame more folks aren't invited to volunteer because the qualifications
aren't THAT specialized.
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happyboy
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response 361 of 457:
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Jun 2 19:48 UTC 2005 |
mike doesnt have the proper level of
aspberger's syndrome to fit into that
role.
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tod
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response 362 of 457:
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Jun 2 19:59 UTC 2005 |
If you don't show up for the Grex Trundle and Trough-off then you're not
trustworthy.
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mary
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response 363 of 457:
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Jun 2 20:04 UTC 2005 |
Is this the part where we're being nice to staff?
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jep
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response 364 of 457:
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Jun 2 20:07 UTC 2005 |
re resp:363: I see offers of help, and tod and happyboy being
irrelevantly trivial which is normal for them. What do you think would
help?
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happyboy
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response 365 of 457:
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Jun 2 20:14 UTC 2005 |
you just responded to yourself, nerse ratchet
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naftee
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response 366 of 457:
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Jun 2 20:29 UTC 2005 |
would you trust a gay man with your children ?
would you trust TWENEX with your COMPUTER ?!
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tod
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response 367 of 457:
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Jun 2 20:36 UTC 2005 |
re #363
WHAT staff? Why is it staff that has the authority to decide who can
volunteer and who can't? Why doesn't the BoD step up to the plate and make
some management decisions instead of letting things drag on over and over?
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mary
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response 368 of 457:
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Jun 2 21:01 UTC 2005 |
The board has always been of the opinion that we're not going to micro-
manage staff. That has worked pretty well in the past. We've encouraged,
asked what we could do to help, and facilitated as we could. Staff, on
the other hand, has, for the most part, never trucked off on their own
without consulting with the board and the membership on important issues.
It's been teamwork.
Every once of people skills I own is telling me now is not the time to
change that policy. You may disagree. You may want to run for the board
next time around, stating that's how you'd do business, and see how it
goes.
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mary
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response 369 of 457:
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Jun 2 21:02 UTC 2005 |
s/ounce/once
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tod
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response 370 of 457:
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Jun 2 21:18 UTC 2005 |
I understand not wanting a barn full of admins running amok and fscking up
the system but what if the opposite is happening and the barn is empty?
Right now, newuser is defunct. There is "one" staff person that everyone is
aware of that can fix it. That "one" staff person is tight on time and has
had health concerns. Is that how you want to do business with Grex?
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nharmon
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response 371 of 457:
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Jun 2 21:22 UTC 2005 |
> You may want to run for the board next time around, stating that's how
> you'd do business, and see how it goes.
Ancient chinese proverb speaks of being carefull of what one wishes for.
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glenda
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response 372 of 457:
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Jun 2 22:31 UTC 2005 |
STeve is working on the problem, he just called to ask me if I needed the car
tomorrow so that he can work on it tonight for as long as it takes to get it
done. Even if it means he misses his ride to get enough sleep to be useful
at work and has to drive himself in tomorrow. He is sorry for not getting
it done sooner. He will also be showing me how to do such things so that I
can help more in the future. (Mary missed me on the staff list.)
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rcurl
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response 373 of 457:
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Jun 2 22:58 UTC 2005 |
This is a good beginning for the immediate problem, but it seems there is
still need for a longer range solution, which is the development of additional
volunteer staff members.
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steve
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response 374 of 457:
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Jun 2 23:48 UTC 2005 |
Indeed, more are needed.
I am getting the data right now to finish the fixing of master.passwd.
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drew
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response 375 of 457:
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Jun 3 00:30 UTC 2005 |
When exactly did newuser go fubar? Was it coincident with going to the new
system? Was it coincident with moving into the co-lo?
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nharmon
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response 376 of 457:
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Jun 3 00:50 UTC 2005 |
I believe it had something to do with a drive going bad, and the password file
being messed up.
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cross
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response 377 of 457:
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Jun 3 03:40 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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slynne
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response 378 of 457:
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Jun 3 03:50 UTC 2005 |
I have a feeling that both glenda and steve would agree that it isnt
fair to dump everything in their lap. I am sure they will correct me if
I am wrong.
I agree that the lack of staff is a board issue. I am not sure exactly
what the solution is here. I want to make people feel welcomed enough to
feel that they can volunteer to be on staff without being in some sort
of in-crowd. I want the staff to let those people who volunteer do things.
Part of the problem, as I see it, is security. The staff tend to allow
people they know onto staff because those are the people they know they
can trust. It is true that the best way to become staff on grex is to be
invited. It is an "in crowd" on staff. On the board too I suppose
although it is probably easier to get on the board than it is to get
onto staff.
I really dont know what the best solution is though. We could always
double the staff's pay ;)
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aruba
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response 379 of 457:
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Jun 3 03:52 UTC 2005 |
Re #375: Drew - the problems with newuser are more recent than either the
move or the change to NewGrex.
jep's assessment of the staff situation in #342 (I think) was pretty
accurate a couple of years ago. But we definitely passed the point where
the board felt it was a good idea to depend on STeve and Marcus to fix
things. A few years ago we acquired 3 or 4 new staff members, and we really
hoped that would solve the problem. Unfortunately, for various reasons,
we're largely back where we were. When this latest crisis came up, for
instance, no one but STeve stepped up to work on it, and then he got it half
fixed and moved on to other crises, leaving Grex in limbo.
We certainly need more staff, and it's certainly true that there have been
many barriers to getting onto the staff. We need a procedure for giving
potential staff members some responsibility to see how they do, then
"promoting" them if they do well. But the board/staff also needs the
discretion to ignore applications from people who are clearly just trying to
cause trouble.
There's a needle to be thread there.
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aruba
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response 380 of 457:
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Jun 3 03:53 UTC 2005 |
(Lynne slipped in.)
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