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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 467 responses total. |
slynne
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response 353 of 467:
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Dec 23 00:43 UTC 2004 |
I am soooo excited!
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keesan
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response 354 of 467:
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Dec 23 04:02 UTC 2004 |
Can we have a celebration party when nextgrex gets online? There is a small
chance Jim would agree to cram 10 people into his house for a potluck given
a week's chance to clean up a bit first.
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naftee
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response 355 of 467:
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Dec 23 04:11 UTC 2004 |
that's a pretty small house if you have to "cram" 10 people.
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cross
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response 356 of 467:
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Dec 23 06:21 UTC 2004 |
FYI- Regarding `watch'; I looked on mnet, and they're using a clone called
`uwatch' that's in the FreeBSD port's collection. It appears to be a
rewrite of watch from grex (well, I imagine the original watch as it
appeared on mnet and was subsequently ported to grex). Given that it's
in the FreeBSD ports collection, I suggest what we do is install it, and
then contribute the port back to OpenBSD. Jan, I don't know exactly how
you do all this funky stuff; if you tell me, I'll do it in a few days and
document it in your CVS tree and go from there. I suggest someone else
submit the port to the OpenBSD people, as I don't get along with Theo too
well.
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twenex
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response 357 of 467:
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Dec 23 13:51 UTC 2004 |
You mean some people do? ;-P
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dpc
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response 358 of 467:
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Dec 23 18:04 UTC 2004 |
Marvelous news, janc!
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cross
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response 359 of 467:
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Dec 23 18:35 UTC 2004 |
Well, not to my knowledge, but someone must have gotten along with him
at some point as he's still alive. :-)
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twenex
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response 360 of 467:
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Dec 23 18:57 UTC 2004 |
Heh. Good point.
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janc
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response 361 of 467:
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Dec 23 21:55 UTC 2004 |
For a small program like 'watch', I'd probably stick it in the Grexdoc CVS
tree in the "misc/src" subdirectory. There are other similar little programs
already there. The "misc/build" script (somewhat counterintutively) builds
and installs those programs. The "killwatch" program is just an sh script,
and should go in "misc/grex-scripts", with a symlink command in
"misc/scriptsymlink". (I didn't create the "misc" subtree - DanG did. I just
added more to it.)
Interesting that my watch has wandered into the FreeBSD ports tree. Getting
it in shape for the OpenBSD ports tree is not a task I'm interested in. I
just want it on Grex, and getting it into the Grexdoc tree is good enough for
me. I haven't ever interacted with Theo, but since I have basic personality
conflicts with OpenBSD, I suspect it wouldn't take me long to find some with
him.
Just for confusions sake, we have the grexdoc CVS tree and /usr/local/grexdoc.
They are completely different.
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twenex
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response 362 of 467:
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Dec 23 23:36 UTC 2004 |
Why are we moving to OpenBSD when the person who is doing all the donkey work
doesn't like it/the team?
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janc
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response 363 of 467:
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Dec 24 05:12 UTC 2004 |
Well, I argued for FreeBSD. There's nothing wrong with OpenBSD itself.
I believe it is more secure than competing operating systems, but not as
much so as they'd have you believe. However, it's user community is not
fully functional. It is essentially unfriendly to all those who are not
of the annointed. I'm a pretty good programmer, I've known few that I
consider my superior, but I do not care to be a member of any exclusive
guru clubs. I believe that it is part of my job to be able to explain
what I am doing to anyone who wants to know, and that few things are
more interesting to me as a programmer than the questions a newbie asks
about my programs. This difference in attitude is why I say I have a
personality conflict with OpenBSD.
I think the lack of a fully functioning user community will ultimately
be fatal to OpenBSD. It will not be able to keep up with Linux or even
FreeBSD. The OpenBSD people have introduced many valuable innovations,
especially in the area of security, and will likely continue to do so.
The best of these will, in good time, be adopted by the other free OS's.
But people actually running production systems will more and more find
that OpenBSD doesn't cut it for them. OpenBSD will be regarded more and
more as an experimental testbed for various security ideas, rather than
a real working OS. When the passage of time claims a few of the current
leaders of the OpenBSD effort, no one of equal skill will replace them,
and the whole thing will fade away. It will have had an important and
lasting influence on other open source operating systems, but it will not,
itself, continue to exist.
There are already significant cracks showing. I think one of the largest
is that there appears to be no native version of Java for OpenBSD - you
need to run Linux Java or FreeBSD Java under OpenBSD's emulation mode.
It's not completely clear to me how well that works. I don't really
think that an operating system that has issues with running Java can be
taken entirely seriously in this day and age. Sure, they'll fix this,
but will they fix the next thing and the next thing? And how far behind
will the be with their fixes?
I don't think OpenBSD should change. I think it's particular personality
makes it able to contribute to the broader free software effort in a way
that would not be possible if it's developer community were just like the
Linux or FreeBSD communities. However I think this personality limits
its appropriateness for use on Grex.
Well, I was out voted. I don't mind. The step from SunOS to OpenBSD is
a huge step in the right direction. SunOS was *ancient*. OpenBSD is
maybe just a bit off the leading edge in some ways (though it is the
leading edge in a few significant ways), and though it may fall further
back, it won't fall back as fast as SunOS is falling. If someday we feel
the need to step off OpenBSD onto something like FreeBSD, the step will
be far smaller than the one we are taking now.
Do I wish the people who argued so fervently for OpenBSD where actually
here doing something about it? Sure. But what the heck, that's how it
goes.
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keesan
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response 364 of 467:
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Dec 24 17:02 UTC 2004 |
How much effort would it be to switch from OpenBSD to FreeBSD, maybe in a
couple of years? Jan, I hope you are learning something useful to yourself
from all your work here.
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cross
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response 365 of 467:
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Dec 24 17:14 UTC 2004 |
Not that hard. Basically, by that time, we should get a new computer
anyhow, and then it wouldn't be terribly difficult to install FreeBSD
on it.
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cross
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response 366 of 467:
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Dec 24 17:15 UTC 2004 |
Okay, we can stick it in grexdoc. By the way: should we compile it with
the built-in party support? That says it's semi-obsolete.
I don't know if the uwatch stuff does that or not.
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cross
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response 367 of 467:
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Dec 24 17:17 UTC 2004 |
FYI- I changed the links in /usr/local/bin on nextgrex so that
`bbs' now runs fronttalk, and `picospan' runs picospan.
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janc
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response 368 of 467:
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Dec 24 21:03 UTC 2004 |
Um. A decision was made to start out with Picospan. Because of that
decision, I decided that fixing bugs in Fronttalk was not on the
critical path to getting up on NextGrex. Therefore bug patches to
Fronttalk have been moved to the back burner and have not been done yet.
Fronttalk is not ready to replace Picospan on NextGrex.
I believe the general sense is that there is strong support for moving
to Fronttalk. I expect to do so within a year.
I don't remember what the built in party support in watch does.
No, I don't really learn anything useful to myself from working on
configuring OpenBSD and all the various software packages on Grex. I'm
a programmer, not a system administrator.
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cross
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response 369 of 467:
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Dec 24 23:36 UTC 2004 |
When was a decision made to start out with picospan? I certainly
wasn't aware of that. I do remember a decision being made to install
picospan on nextgrex, and have it accessible, but not that it should
be the primary choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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cross
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response 370 of 467:
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Dec 24 23:40 UTC 2004 |
(Regardless, I switched the symlink for BBS back to picospan. Ugh.)
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gelinas
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response 371 of 467:
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Dec 25 06:06 UTC 2004 |
Item 205:33ff, Dan.
You objected then; I didn't expect you to change your mind. :)
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cross
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response 372 of 467:
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Dec 25 14:57 UTC 2004 |
Heh, okay, I'll check out the reference.
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albaugh
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response 373 of 467:
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Dec 25 23:23 UTC 2004 |
My motion to bring to a vote by members re: determining that bbs on nextgrex
would be fronttalk has stalled, awaiting sufficient support from the
membership (10% = ~7 people). Failing that, staff has the freedom to use its
own discretion, I guess.
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janc
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response 374 of 467:
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Dec 26 05:09 UTC 2004 |
I appreciate the effort. I really think we do have to move beyond
Picospan, and I think Fronttalk can be, at least, a good first step on
such a path. However, Picospan belatedly appeared on Grex, and that
made it possible to move the Fronttalk project off the list of things
that needed to get done before the move to the new system. Let's get
one thing done at a time.
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cross
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|
response 375 of 467:
|
Dec 26 05:40 UTC 2004 |
Very well. Still, I don't see why we can't run ft as the default,
with picospan as the backup for those that encounter bugs. Ah well,
whatever works best, I guess.
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keesan
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response 376 of 467:
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Dec 29 15:32 UTC 2004 |
Grex is back in just THREE DAYS! Jan and Joe, I love you. (And everyone else
working on the transition).
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keesan
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response 377 of 467:
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Dec 29 16:14 UTC 2004 |
A few problems using Pine:
1. I type Pine and am told 'Folder vulnerable - must have 1777 protection'.
I get the same message going into another folder besides INBOX ('from' under
/mail which is where I keep my procmail log of what went where).
2. Procmail is not working as expected. First time around it said I had 1
message and I typed Enter and could read the list of what happened to which
mails UP THROUGH DEC 26. I just sent myself a spam (subject line Cialis)
which never arrived in the inbox or in the log. The second time I tried to
look at this log it said 1 message but it was blank when I tried to read the
list of what went where. So I looked at it with less after cd'ing to my /mail
and everything is still there but there is NOTHING listed after Dec 26 so I
don't know where the mail I sent myself went or whether mail is working at
all since I have not received any mails yet today, even spam.
My apologies for not setting up a procmail spam filter while testing NextGrex.
3. There were four mails from late October after the Dec 26 mails, which I
thought I had deleted then.
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