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25 new of 107 responses total.
twenex
response 34 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 00:13 UTC 2006

arf arf.
tod
response 35 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 00:16 UTC 2006

Whooooooops!
gull
response 36 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 01:09 UTC 2006

Re resp:8: You know, conservatives often complain about liberal 
political correctness.  But liberal political correctness mostly just 
consists of attempts to shame people who violate it.  Violating 
*conservative* political correctness can get you led away in handcuffs. 
 
gull
response 37 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 01:32 UTC 2006

FactCheck.org has published their analysis of the State of the Union  
address.  They found nothing factually incorrect, but several instances 
of statistics being used selectively. I'll copy the summary here; the 
full text is at http://www.factcheck.org/article376.html  
 
--- 
  
The President left out a few things when surveying the State of the  
Nation:  
  
* He proudly spoke of "writing a new chapter in the story of  
self-government" in Iraq and Afghanistan and said the number of  
democracies in the world is growing. He failed to mention that neither  
Iraq nor Afghanistan yet qualify as democracies according to the very  
group whose statistics he cited.  
  
* Bush called for Congress to pass a line-item veto, failing to mention  
that the Supreme Court struck down a line-item veto as unconstitutional  
in 1998. Bills now in Congress would propose a Constitutional  
amendment, but none have shown signs of life.  
  
* The President said the economy gained 4.6 million jobs in the past  
two-and-a-half years, failing to note that it had lost 2.6 million jobs  
in his first two-and-a-half years in office. The net gain since Bush  
took office is just a little more than 2 million.  
  
* He talked of cutting spending, but only "non-security discretionary  
spending." Actually, total federal spending has increased 42 percent  
since Bush took office.  
  
* He spoke of being "on track" to cut the federal deficit in half by  
2009. But the deficit is increasing this year, and according to the  
Congressional Budget Office it will decline by considerably less than  
half even if Bush's tax cuts are allowed to lapse.  
  
* Bush spoke of a "goal" of cutting dependence on Middle Eastern oil,  
failing to mention that US dependence on imported oil and petroleum  
products increased substantially during his first five years in office,  
reaching 60 per cent of consumption last year.  
  
klg
response 38 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 01:36 UTC 2006

I don't know if JPJR is a good or bad parent.  I just believe it's
rather inconsistent to tell a child to think for himself, then blast him
when he doesn't agree with you.
tod
response 39 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 01:46 UTC 2006

Well, I respect enemies of freedom but I disagree with them and see no reason
to discuss it further.  I don't know why they hate our country and our
freedomes.  Freedom is on the March.  We want to send the right kind of
message to our troops.  That's why I'm asking Congress to summon Chtulu here
tonight as we carpetbomb the shit out of Iran.  See, I'm a war przdunt.
johnnie
response 40 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 02:42 UTC 2006

From Knight-Ridder:

"One day after President Bush vowed to reduce America's dependence on
Middle East oil by cutting imports from there 75 percent by 2025, his
energy secretary and national economic adviser said Wednesday that the
president didn't mean it literally.

What the president meant, they said in a conference call with reporters,
was that alternative fuels *could* displace an amount of oil imports
*equivalent* to *most* of what America is *expected* to import from the
Middle East in 2025.

'This was purely an example,' Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said."
johnnie
response 41 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 02:59 UTC 2006

>FactCheck.org has published their analysis of the State of the Union  
>address.  They found nothing factually incorrect,

Well, there's this:  http://tinyurl.com/aydpa

Also, charges against Cindy Sheehan have been dropped because--Oops!--it
turns out that exercising one's 1stAmendment rights via t-shirt isn't
actually against the law.  Who woulda guessed?
jep
response 42 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 03:00 UTC 2006

Even conservatives get blasted by klg.  Whew, I was thinking there was 
something wrong with me!

re resp:37: Some of your citations used selective statistics which 
convey inaccurate impressions.

Fastcheck.org:
He proudly spoke of "writing a new chapter in the story of self-
government" in Iraq and Afghanistan and said the number of democracies 
in the world is growing. He failed to mention that neither Iraq nor 
Afghanistan yet qualify as democracies according to the very group 
whose statistics he cited.

Answer: The president didn't say they were democracies.

Fastcheck.org:
He talked of cutting spending, but only "non-security discretionary 
spending." Actually, total federal spending has increased 42 percent 
since Bush took office.

Answer: How did "non-security discretionary spending" change?  Was 
there more of it, or less?  If you're going to dispute the president 
onfacts, do so by disputing the facts that he said.

FactCheck.org didn't really seem to dispute some of the things the 
president said, but rather stated it would have been nice if he'd said 
different things, and then called it "misstatements" that he didn't say 
what they wish he had said.  I agreed with some of the things they said 
but overall I don't regard these people as having any credibility.  
They don't seem real committed to any reasonable definition of the 
word, "fact".
rcurl
response 43 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 04:14 UTC 2006

" * The President said the economy gained 4.6 million jobs in the past  
 two-and-a-half years, failing to note that it had lost 2.6 million jobs  
 in his first two-and-a-half years in office. The net gain since Bush  
 took office is just a little more than 2 million."

The *population* has increased by 15 million since Bush took office. About 
64% of the population is in the labor force. That means that the required 
employment growth needed to keep pace with population increase is 9.6 
million. A net gain of 2 million is barely 21 % of that required to 
maintain a steady employment percentage. This is a pretty miserable 
performance of the economy.
rcurl
response 44 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 04:16 UTC 2006

That 15 million is that over age 16, the employable age group. Same for the
64% in the labor force. 
gull
response 45 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 06:33 UTC 2006

Re resp:41: I don't think the goal was ever to charge her with anything.
 The goal was to get her out of sight before anyone noticed her.


Re resp:42: FactCheck.org does routinely take on both sides, though. 
(For example, here's a rather strong criticism of a recent DNC ad:
http://www.factcheck.org/article373.html) They also provide citations
for everything they say.  I find them useful even if I don't agree with
all of their conclusions.

I don't think their State of the Union article was one of their better
ones, but I thought it might be of interest here.  I think that, at very
least, they should have picked a different headline; the use of the word
"misstatement" isn't supported by the article text.  This crops up
enough that I'm wondering if their headlines are written by an editor
instead of by the article authors -- a common practice in journalism.

Incidentally, I keyed in on the President's use of the term "non-defense
discretionary spending" as a bit of a dodge as soon as I heard it.  That
category is a tiny portion of the budget, only 16%.  Cutting spending
there is unlikely to make up for his goal of making his tax cuts permanent.
gull
response 46 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 06:41 UTC 2006

This slid by me during the actual speech, but in hindsight, it's
striking and a little creepy:

"We see great changes in science and commerce that will influence all
our lives. Sometimes it can seem that history is turning in a wide arc,
toward an unknown shore. Yet the destination of history is determined by
human action, and every great movement of history comes to a point of
choosing.

Lincoln could have accepted peace at the cost of disunity and continued
slavery. Martin Luther King could have stopped at Birmingham or at
Selma, and achieved only half a victory over segregation. The United
States could have accepted the permanent division of Europe, and been
complicit in the oppression of others. Today, having come far in our own
historical journey, we must decide: Will we turn back, or finish well?"


Will we *finish* well?  I figured our history as a nation would keep
going for a long time to come, but maybe he knows something we don't?
twenex
response 47 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 09:50 UTC 2006

The State of the Union should be broadcast on the Comedy Channel.
richard
response 48 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 15:52 UTC 2006

Bush acts as if just setting up a "democracy" is all thats necessary.  Of all
the countries now having democratic elections, I dont guess he mentioned the
Palestinian Authority did he?  They just had a free and fair election, and
elected Hamas leadership.  A democracy isnt a cure all for everything.  
keesan
response 49 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 15:57 UTC 2006

Look what happened during the last two democratic elections for the President
of the USA.  There are many ways to rig an election, and also to bamboozle
the voters, some of whom have mental ages of about 5.
nharmon
response 50 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 16:08 UTC 2006

Yeah, and look at the two before those.
twenex
response 51 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 16:14 UTC 2006

You don't seriously expect us to believe that the antepenultimate election,
and the one before that, ended with the election of a president even worse
than the current half-trained monkey, do you?

Oh wait. Yes. You do.
jep
response 52 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 16:23 UTC 2006

re resp:48: He did mention the Palestinian elections.  He pretty 
bluntly said that Hamas has to grow up now and join the community of 
world leaders.
nharmon
response 53 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 16:30 UTC 2006

Re 51: How the hell did you get that from #50?
twenex
response 54 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 16:37 UTC 2006

And I quote:

#49 of 53: by Sindi Keesan (keesan) on Thu, Feb  2, 2006 (15:57):
 Look what happened during the last two democratic elections for the President
 of the USA.  There are many ways to rig an election, and also to bamboozle
 the voters, some of whom have mental ages of about 5.

#50 of 53: by Nathan Harmon (nharmon) on Thu, Feb  2, 2006 (16:08):
 Yeah, and look at the two before those.
nharmon
response 55 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 16:47 UTC 2006

And from that you conclude my meaning was that Bush was better than Clinton?
twenex
response 56 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 16:47 UTC 2006

Wasn't it?
marcvh
response 57 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 16:52 UTC 2006

I took that your meaning was that the elections of 1992 and 1996 were
less well conducted (in the sense of having irregularities and not
producing a clear result) than the elections of 2000 and 2004.  What I'm
not sure is where that comes from.  The 1996 election did have the odd
influence of Perot as a possible spoiler, and a relatively low turnout,
but I certainly don't see that as remotely similar to what happened in
2000.
nharmon
response 58 of 107: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 17:09 UTC 2006

Re 56: No, it wasn't. My meaning was that you could look at those for
more ways to rig an election. 

Re 57: Certainly they were conducted better, but that doesn't mean you
couldn't look at them if you wanted to find ways to rig elections. ;)
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