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| Author |
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| 25 new of 378 responses total. |
scholar
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response 338 of 378:
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Mar 12 20:52 UTC 2006 |
I meant millilitres.
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mary
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response 339 of 378:
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Mar 15 14:43 UTC 2006 |
The U of M hospital is soon to start a bariatric surgery program. In
preparation I just completed a six hour course designed to inform the
medical professional about the patient population, the different
procedures, the surgical risks, the post-op care, etc. I have met quite a
few people who have gone this route, after much deliberation, and who are
very pleased with their decision. If I met the criteria and felt it
was my best shot at a healthier and happier future, I'd have the surgery.
It's not for everyone. In fact, some of the criteria for undergoing the
procedure is you have to be morbidly obese, have comorbidities, and have
failed for years trying standard approaches for weight loss. But it is
indeed the answer for many and it changes lives. If you are happy with
yourself and your health, this isn't for you.
Here is a link to a site with steaming video of laproscopic gastric
bypass surgery. Just follow the links but know it's 90 minutes long.
http://liteandhope.or-live.com/
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slynne
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response 340 of 378:
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Mar 15 17:51 UTC 2006 |
I just read a news article that talked about low blood sugar being a
side effect of this surgery because apparently it causes the pancreas
to produce more insulin. The article suggested that it might make the
surgury more appropriate for people who have been diagnosed with type 2
diabetes but slightly more dangerous for people who havent been.
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keesan
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response 341 of 378:
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Mar 15 18:46 UTC 2006 |
I just found in a Better Homes and Gardens magazine a little pull-out paper
from United Health Foundation listing normal BMIs. Mine is about 20 (low
normal) and Jim is 24 (top end of normal). To be overweight I would need to
weigh about 155 (it used to be 150). Definitions are changing as the American
people get heavier. No wonder people weighing 75% of 'average' are more
healthy than average.
Diseases and health problems related to obesity:
Type 2 diabetes
Heart disease
High blood pressure
Stroke
Gallstones (I think this has more to do with diet)
Liver disease (ditto)
Pulmonary disorders
The chart is such that if you are under 5' 4" (half of American women unless
they have gotten taller) you are off the chart unless you are near the top
end of healthy or above. Surely there must be quite a few women who are 5'2
and weigh less than I do.
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tod
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response 342 of 378:
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Mar 15 19:12 UTC 2006 |
Give me their email if you know any
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jadecat
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response 343 of 378:
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Mar 15 19:15 UTC 2006 |
I think average height for American women is now 5'6".
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scholar
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response 344 of 378:
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Mar 15 19:57 UTC 2006 |
I weigh 6'1", but I'm not a woman. :(
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jadecat
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response 345 of 378:
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Mar 15 20:04 UTC 2006 |
You weigh 6'1" huh? What's that like?
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scholar
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response 346 of 378:
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Mar 15 20:22 UTC 2006 |
I do it by eating oatmeal!
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tod
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response 347 of 378:
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Mar 15 20:38 UTC 2006 |
How much do six feet weigh?
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scholar
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response 348 of 378:
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Mar 15 20:45 UTC 2006 |
two yards.
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jadecat
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response 349 of 378:
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Mar 15 21:07 UTC 2006 |
resp:346 Ah yes, I see. We had pantry beetles that liked oatmeal too.
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gull
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response 350 of 378:
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Mar 18 02:17 UTC 2006 |
Re resp:168: On the other hand, some kinds of dieting may make you
*more* of a burden on society than you would be otherwise:
"Low carbohydrate, high protein diets may help to shed weight quickly
but researchers warned on Friday that they can be unhealthy.
"The diets can cause constipation, diarrhea, headache, bad breath and
ketosis, which causes raised levels of ketones, or acids, in the body.
"...In a case report in the journal, doctors at New York University
School of Medicine said they had treated a 40-year-old obese woman, who
had followed the Atkins diet, for a life-threatening illness known as
ketoacidosis."
(http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=healthNews&storyID=2
006-0
3-17T000703Z_01_L1675052_RTRIDST_0_HEALTH-DIETS-DC.XML)
Re resp:180: I think it's because it's become part of our national
belief system that being fat is immoral. The idea that people who do
immoral things should be made to feel shame, because then they might
choose a different path, seems to be part and parcel of living in a
Christian culture.
richard: I know a lot of skinny people who have fat pets. In my
experience, MOST people overfeed their pets. I think you just notice
it more when the person walking the pet is also fat.
Also, alcohol tends to make you move less in your sleep. Given all the
times I've woken up with very sore joints after drinking, due to having
slept in some awkward position, I don't think I'd recommend your
"treatment" to someone with arthritis.
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slynne
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response 351 of 378:
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Mar 18 02:33 UTC 2006 |
resp:350 I agree that there are a lot of people who see being fat as
being immoral. I even wrote a blog post about it a year ago:
Repent all ye sinners!
03.25.05 (1:00 pm)
This is a reply to a couple of comments made in the Why bench seats on
the subway will ruin the world post.
Yes, the majority of Americans are overweight according to an arbitrary
standard that is seriously flawed. But so what? What "responsibility"
for their actions should they take? I mean, I know I am fat because I
choose to eat an amount that keeps me fat. I could eat 800 calories a
day and if I did, I would be thin. I would be really hungry all the time
and really unhappy. I don t think that such a diet would be particularly
more healthy than what I eat right now. I think that my body was meant
to be fat because of my genetics. I used to get angry about the
unfairness of that until I looked around and noticed that my fat
relatives were living into their 90 s so hopefully they have passed
their good health genes to me too which is equally unfair when you think
about it. I don t see how accepting that my genes are a big factor in my
weight means that I am not accepting responsibility for my weight.
What I don t accept is a culture that treats me poorly because of my
choice to be fat. And yes, it is a choice albeit one where none of the
options are all that wonderful. My choices as I see it are 1) Eat a very
reduced calorie diet and spend hours working out every day. Which would
mean that I wouldn t have time to actually live my life since I would
pretty much be working out and thinking about my next meal all the time.
2) Get WLS which has some pretty big health risks. But it would help me
maintain a lifestyle where I could eat 800 calories a day without
feeling hungry all the time. 3) Eat a healthy diet and do some exercise
that I enjoy. Be healthier but still fat even though that means that I
have to constantly put up with all of the disadvantages of being fat.
Most of which are due to cultural issues which possibly can be changed.
Obviously I have chosen option 3. I don t think it was a bad choice
although I still get angry when society decides to discriminate against
me because of my choice. Frankly, I think that anger is a normal
response.
I think that this country has a weird thing going on where we, as a
culture, see being thin as a virtue. Which means, of course, that being
fat is a vice. It is an interesting virtue though because most thin
people do not put much effort into being thin. But some do and being
thin is seen as evidence of willpower, control over one s body, success,
etc. But in order for it to be a virtue, the opposite has to be seen as
a vice. So you get people saying things like if you just got out and
exercised, you wouldn t be fat or stop eating fast food and bon bons
all day and you will lose weight which carries the message that in
order to be fat, a person must be completely sedentary and eat a
completely unhealthy diet. But the truth is that a lot of fat people eat
very healthy diets and are quite active and a lot of thin people eat
terrible diets and sit around all day. In other words, you really can
not judge a person's behavior by their weight
In this way I kind of see a parallel between fat people and gay people.
Fat people could be thin if they go against their nature and eat an
amount of food that will keep them at a weight society determines is
acceptable. Gay people can have sex with people of the opposite gender
too if they go against their nature. But will it make them happy? If the
problem is that society frowns upon them and says that they are sinners
because of who they choose to have sex with, are they the problem or is
the problem with society at large? And if the problem with fat people is
that society frowns upon them and says that they are sinners because
they eat too much, is the problem that fat people aren t taking
responsibility or is the problem that our culture discriminates and
treats certain sinners poorly?
Look. I think that Americans in general tend to have terrible eating
habits and exercise habits. That probably is why as a group, we are
getting fatter than we were before. I also think that encouraging people
to eat a healthy diet and to be active are good things. But eating a
healthy diet with enough calories that they don t feel hungry (1200-2500
cal/day) and getting a moderate amount of exercise will not cause a
person to lose more than a few pounds. It certainly isnt going to turn a
fat person into a thin person.
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cyklone
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response 352 of 378:
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Mar 18 07:14 UTC 2006 |
Lynne, your heading sums it up for me. If a bunch of fat people are taking
up extra seats, I don't like it any more than when someone takes up two
parking spaces and keeps someone else (like me, for instance) out of a
spot that should have been available.
Having said that, when you open your eyes and look around, it's obvious
that lots of larger people are meeting others who are interested in them,
falling in love, and having more large people. It's not like you're some
oppressed minority, given how many Americans are large. You can read
whatever message you want into our culture and media, etc, etc. but that
doesn't have to determine your happiness. To be honest, if the shoe
were on the other foot, and I were to feel "oppressed", all I'd care about
would be finding someone else to love, and giving a big "fuck you" to
those who didn't like it. I get the feeling from your posts you've never
had that. That is what is sad, not how someone else feels or thinks about
you.
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tsty
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response 353 of 378:
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Mar 18 07:21 UTC 2006 |
somewehere during today's activities, i overhaerd a story about some hotel
on the east coast that had changed its room rates.
you pay by the poound.
not the room size - not the type fo bed(s) - not the view.
the more you weigh; the more you pay.
i could have heard/misheard something because it was 'in passing' but
the thoguht cought my attention, big time (intend3ed).
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keesan
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response 354 of 378:
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Mar 18 13:50 UTC 2006 |
I would prefer a world full of fat people than car owners, who take up much
more space and cause much more damage.
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cyklone
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response 355 of 378:
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Mar 18 14:10 UTC 2006 |
Who do you think is driving all those big SUVs?
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slynne
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response 356 of 378:
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Mar 18 14:10 UTC 2006 |
Cyklone, do you have a problem when someone with wheelchair gets on a
bus and they have flip up those front seats so the wheelchair person not
only gets the *best* seats on the bus but three of them? What if the
person in a wheelchair is there because of an accident that occurred
while they were doing something dangerous (snowboarding?).
Personally, I think that it is treading a dangerous line when we start
saying that certain people are more or less deserving of public
accommodation because of their bodies. Do fat people take up more space
in the world simply because of size. Yes. So what?
As for my happiness. I am mostly happy but it is possible to be happy
with one's life and still not like being discriminated against. And
there is a lot of proof that fat people are discriminated against
although in a weird way, since more and more Americans are gaining
weight, there is hope that people will become more accepting of large
people. And just so you know, one doesnt have to be a minority to be
discriminated against. Women are discriminated against in many ways and
women are a majority.
As for your comments about my romantic life. I hardly know what to say.
It is completely irrelevant if I have ever had any serious romantic
relationships or not. As it happens, I have. And I know that feeling of
being two people against the world is a powerful one but so what? I find
that I am perfectly capable of saying "fuck you" to the world all on my
own.
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cyklone
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response 357 of 378:
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Mar 18 14:36 UTC 2006 |
Comparing people in wheelchairs to obese people is apples and oranges
again. I won't even bother going into all the ways your comparison is off.
What I will say, though, is that you sound an awful lot like the christian
conservatives who claim to suffer discrimination where it doesn't exist.
As I mentioned before, large people get all kinds of breaks from society
in terms of the social and economic subsidies I've mentioned before (such
as retrofitting chairs in transportation and public accomodations). Your
beef seems to keep coming back to "I don't like the attitude I perceive
towards me." Hey, people cop attitudes about others all the time, for all
kinds of reasons. So what? You can take offense or you can continue to
live your life and decide to be happy. But it's not discrimination, and
when you use that term you are diluting the meaning of the word, which in
turm can lead to minimizing the impact of true forms of discrimination
that exist in this country.
If you've found romantic happiness great; that just proves my point. I
don't see how anyone is interfering with your pursuit of happiness, job
opportunities or your access to public accomodations. There aren't
separate water fountains for fat people and no is making you sit on the
back of the bus. By your own admission, you've been reading about "fat
acceptance." It seems to me that in the absence of actual discrimination,
the real issue is self-acceptance. If you have it already then I don't get
your repeated attempts to imply there is some sort of discrimination when
in fact it basically boils down to differing opinions of what is healthy
and "right." Vive le difference and all that . . . .
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slynne
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response 358 of 378:
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Mar 18 15:05 UTC 2006 |
Comparing handicapped people to fat people in this case makes perfect
sense. We are talking about public accommodation and who deserves it.
Does everyone deserve it? Apparently you believe that fat people dont.
But once, a lot of people believed that handicapped people didnt deserve
it either.
Like a lot of people who dont actually experience discrimination, it can
be difficult to see. Is discrimination against fat people the same as
what black people experienced in the Jim Crow years? No, of course it
isnt. Discrimination against different groups takes different forms.
Sometimes discrimination is out and out hostile, sometimes it is more
subtle. It is funny that you would compare me to those christian
conservatives who claim discrimination where it doesnt exist because in
the back of my mind, I was comparing you to them too because they
generally refuse to acknowledge that other groups are discriminated
against. I see their calls of discrimination really as them being upset
about a loss of privilege. FWIW, I can see how a loss of privilege might
seem to them to be discrimination but obviously, I dont see it that way
As it happens, as far as discrimination goes, I realize that I have a
lot of privilege too. I am white. I was rised in a upper middle class
family. I was raised Christian. In some very real ways, I am in the
mainstream. But discrimination based on weight does exist. Fat people
are discriminated in the work force. Fat people are discriminated
against in the dating world (which doesnt mean that fat people cant find
partners but it is a little harder). All in all, I am probably ahead of
the game though. Discrimination against racial minorities and poor
people is probably worse than the discrimination against fat people. But
that doesnt mean that discrimination against fat people is right and
shouldnt be talked about.
But yes, Vive le difference. I think that diversity in our culture
should be celebrated and that includes size diversity.
One of the bloggers I read wrote a nice piece about thin privilege
modeled after a similar list of white privilege written by Peggy
McIntosh. Her blog can be found at http://fatshadow.com
Everyday as an average sized person ...
I can be sure that people aren't embarrassed to be seen with me because
of the size of my body.
If I pick up a magazine or watch T.V. I will see bodies that look like
mine that aren't being lampooned, desexualized, or used to signify
laziness, ignorance, or lack of self-control.
When I talk about the size of my body I can be certain that few other
people will hope they are never the same size.
I do not have to be afraid that when I talk to my friends or family they
will mention the size of my body in a critical manner, or suggest
unsolicited diet products and exercise programs.
I will not be accused of being emotionally troubled or in psychological
denial because of the size of my body.
I can go home from meetings, classes, and conversations and not feel
excluded, fearful, attacked, isolated, outnumbered, unheard, held at a
distance, stereotyped, or feared because of the size of my body.
I never have to speak for size acceptance as a movement. My thoughts
about my body can be my own with no need for political alliance relative
to size.
I can be sure that when I go to a class, or movie, or restaurant that I
will find a place to sit in which I am relatively comfortable.
I don't have to worry that if I am talking about feeling of sexual
attraction people are repelled or disgusted by the size of my body.
People can imagine me in sexual circumstances.
People won't ask me why I don't change the size of my body.
My masculinity or femininity will not be challenged because of the size
of my body.
I can be sure that if I need medical or legal help my size will not work
against me.
I am not identified by the size of my body.
I can walk in public with my significant other and not have people
double take or stare.
I can go for months without thinking about or being spoken to about the
size of my body.
I am not grouped because of the size of my body.
I will never have to sit quietly and listen while other people talk
about the ways in which they avoid being my size.
I don't have to worry that won't be hired for a job that I can do
because of the size of my body.
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slynne
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response 359 of 378:
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Mar 18 17:20 UTC 2006 |
I was thinking about my last post and I think I probably shouldnt have
brought up discrimination in the dating world. As it happens, I believe
that when it comes to dating, people probably *should* discriminate and
go with their gut feelings and what they find attractive. I, in no way,
mean to criticise any individual's choices in that area. I discrimate
quite a lot in that area of my life and it is no small part of why I am
currently single.
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keesan
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response 360 of 378:
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Mar 18 19:01 UTC 2006 |
My closest friends are thin, possibly because we share similar attitudes and
ways of eating. I have relatives who are fat, and are very nice people. I
even have neighbors who are not only fat but smoke and are also very nice
people. I can't think of any time when I was ever inconvenienced by someone's
being fat, other than maybe paying a bit more for health insurance because
the average health of Americans goes down with their weight going up.
I am frequently inconvenienced and made sick by smokers, and I see nothing
wrong with letting them know it. They can easily change their behavior by
not smoking into other people's air, even if they cannot break the addiction.
I am continuously inconvenienced by the operators of private motor vehicles,
and on top of that I have to subsidize them in the form of increased health
insurance (they are less healthy due to lack of exercise) and road building
and maintenance. It takes me longer to cross the street, the air outside
frequently stinks, and I am never free of the noise. But car owners are in
the majority so don't expect to be criticized, and think they are okay but
people with bigger motor vehicles are not. The difference in noise, filth,
and waste between an SUV and a car is much less than that between a car and
a bike or pedestrian. I don't think a car person has any right to criticize
a fat person for taking up too much space or resources. A car takes up as
much of the road as maybe 50 bikes, if you count the space in front and behind
that it is not safe to bike in, and that does not even include the space
wasted on parking.
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tod
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response 361 of 378:
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Mar 18 20:07 UTC 2006 |
re #350
Plus, the price of dairy goes up cuz everyone is eating more cheese.
re #360
I can't think of any time when I was ever inconvenienced by someone's
being fat, other than maybe paying a bit more for health insurance because
the average health of Americans goes down with their weight going up.
You've obviously never had to share a redeye flight next to me. ;)
(No arm room, lots of apnea related snoring, lots of junkfood cluttering the
area, extended no-vacancy for the bathroom, did I mention no arm room?)
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cyklone
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response 362 of 378:
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Mar 18 20:50 UTC 2006 |
Yeah, I had a flight a few years back when I went to take my seat and the
obese passenger next to me had the arm rest up. I immediately put it down and
he made some smartass comment about having more room with it up. Yeah, I
thought, more room for you, and less for me.
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