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Grex > Helpers > #140: Grex System Problems - Spring 2005 | |
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| 25 new of 457 responses total. |
cross
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response 331 of 457:
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Jun 1 18:38 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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jep
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response 332 of 457:
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Jun 1 18:41 UTC 2005 |
Mary, how many of your list are actively working on anything for Grex?
Loginids kip and mdw haven't logged in since February so I assume they
are "staff emeritus".
I am not familiar with the activities of the staff in general. I am
only aware of actions by i, steve and janc in the last 3 months. I
thought cross had resigned from staff, but if he's active, that's great.
I don't want to blame anyone for anything. The staff has done a
terrific job for years, and so has the Board. I do want to suggest
that, if the staff members we have can't keep Grex running, then
something needs to be done. Maybe Grex can ask for volunteers from the
users. The newuser program is critical to Grex. I suggest it's
important enough to the survival of Grex that it's worth changing
Grex's time honored practices in order to get it working.
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mary
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response 333 of 457:
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Jun 1 21:48 UTC 2005 |
That I know of there are only a couple of people on that list that know
the software well enough to fix newuser. And one of them is pretty much
not around.
I'm wondering, again, if it isn't time to drop PicoSpan and our newuser
program and go to Backtalk and Frontalk entirely. Now, I'm talking out of
ignorance here that Backtalk even has some type of an account setup
procedure that would allow us to dump newuser. But if so, it may make
sense. I know Jan has Backtalk working elsewhere on the web, what do
those systems use for account maintenance?
I'm very anxious to get newuser running. Even without some of the
damaged accounts restored. At least those affected would be able to
setup new accounts and again participate. We really, really must
make it a priority to not be using software or hardware that is
owned or configured in such a way that only one or two people can
dig us out if there are problems.
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naftee
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response 334 of 457:
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Jun 1 22:28 UTC 2005 |
re 322 You're making yourself invisible by having your responses deleted.
oops
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cross
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response 335 of 457:
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Jun 2 01:15 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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keesan
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response 336 of 457:
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Jun 2 01:48 UTC 2005 |
I think grex is nearly perfect the way it is, apart from the broken newuser
and an occasional crash.
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mary
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response 337 of 457:
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Jun 2 02:15 UTC 2005 |
After speaking with John this evening, about the newuser program, I
realize I really don't know enough about it to suggest changes. Moving to
Backtalk we'd still need newuser. It's not there just for Picospan. I'm
learning.
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mary
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response 338 of 457:
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Jun 2 02:28 UTC 2005 |
As to Dan's comments - I'm sorry you're feeling so burned on Grex. I'm
worried and looking to improve things, which I guess means I'm not
burned. I've been here from day one and we're not big on fast changes,
that's for sure, but we are big on being a user run system, where things
happen by consensus, if at all. And we're an open system where anyone
who finds us gets to act out in ways they couldn't in grade school. And
we don't have much money. And we depend on voluteers to keep the wheels
spinning. I consider it sheer magic we've lasted this long. Wow.
Think about it.
I'm also pretty darn good at hanging in there with problems rather than
throwing up my hands and walking away. Someday, Grex will end. Yep.
It will. But I'm hoping it's not for a while yet.
So, my next project: Lighting a Fire Under STeve. I plan to call him
and explain how Grex is at his mercy. I'll offer to take him to Zing's
for dinner. Shameless manipulation. Wish me luck.
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cross
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response 339 of 457:
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Jun 2 03:01 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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naftee
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response 340 of 457:
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Jun 2 03:06 UTC 2005 |
I enjoy reading cross' GreXsoft item in the garage conference. Everyone
should check it out.
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jep
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response 341 of 457:
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Jun 2 03:38 UTC 2005 |
Good luck, Mary.
Let me give a little of my perspective on what Dan was talking about,
and how it conflicts with what Mary was talking about in resp:338.
Mary said Grex is run by the users. It is, to a point, but the users
are given the level of consent allowed to them by a very small and
select group. Mary is "in". Jan is "in", and Marcus, STeve, Valerie,
John Remmers, and as many as several others, but certainly no more
than several. That group makes all of the decisions about the staff,
and all of the real decisions about how Grex is going to be run. It
always dominates the Board and always has, and it always will. It's
the group recognized by the peripheral users like myself as the group
which "gets it" about how Grex is supposed to run. If any of the
peripheral users didn't agree with that group, they would go away (and
this has happened), because it's just not worth it to push anything
against that group.
When the in group stuck with STeve about SunOs for an extra decade,
then it was dang well written in stone that Grex was going to be on
SunOs. When that group finally conceded it was plain unreasonable to
keep running on SunOs, it took 3 more years to get onto PC hardware.
I've been rooting for cross to gain influence and bring some new ideas
into the staff for years... something like 5 years I think. He has
fought and clawed and scratched and beaten people up to edge his way
into having some say for all of that time (from my peripheral
perspective) and now he says he's worn out. It is *hard* to break
into that circle, if it's possible at all, and it's not worth it for
anyone but a fanatic. But the "in" group is anti-fanatic, too. Aruba
entered it, and maybe srw could have. So I guess there's a way but it
seems pretty dang rare to me and I'm not sure it's possible any more.
It's been fine, the "in" group has done a fine job of keeping things
usable and comfortable for everyone else. It's not a tyrannical group
at all, as long as you don't oppose any of it's core principles such
as the technical infallability of mdw and steve.
But now the "in" group is shrinking and moving on to other things. I
already referred to mdw and valerie abandoning Grex, and others being
less interested. I don't blame them; everyone changes over time, but
there's no one around and acceptable to take their place.
Given an unexpandable core but one which can diminish, and it's
inevitable that an organization is going to fade in time. M-Net's
entire core vanished, then the peripheral group collapsed and formed a
new core, then that vanished, too. The result can be seen. (M-Net
has 6 eligible voters, and didn't manage to have an election in April
as required by the by-laws.) There but for the grace of <insert deity
here> goes Grex.
Grex needs to bulk up it's core, but the "in" group here has as one of
it's very highest principles than no one else "gets it". The silent
majority of us peripheral users support their belief, too.
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naftee
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response 342 of 457:
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Jun 2 04:33 UTC 2005 |
jep, you are one messed-up guy. M-net has several very fine and talented
staff members who actually enjoy keeping the system running.
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eprom
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response 343 of 457:
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Jun 2 04:47 UTC 2005 |
it'd be nice if we could post edit our posts....I made a boo-boo :O
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glenda
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response 344 of 457:
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Jun 2 07:10 UTC 2005 |
STeve is working on it as he has time. He is having a real time crunch at
work with many machines there acting up, budget time for purchase of new
machines with their installation problems (and what looks like a bad batch
of Dells). When choosing between the paying job and volunteer Grex to spend
limited time and energy on, I'm sorry, but the paying job has to win.
Especially this summer when my job gets dropped from 20 hrs/wk during the
semester to just 4 wks of work from May through September.
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cross
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response 345 of 457:
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Jun 2 13:06 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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twenex
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response 346 of 457:
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Jun 2 13:34 UTC 2005 |
Anyone doing a simple cost/benefit analysis of
being root staff of grex would be have to be either crazy to do it, or
they'd very likely have some kind of agenda.
Anyone who doesn't have an agenda is probably not the kind of person you want
to have around when the going gets tough. That happens a LOT in system
administration - on any platform you care to name.
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gull
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response 347 of 457:
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Jun 2 13:53 UTC 2005 |
Re resp:345: Well, information hiding is one way an "in group" stays
exclusive. Information is power in any organization.
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naftee
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response 348 of 457:
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Jun 2 14:58 UTC 2005 |
re 344 That means you can start cooking at home ! :-0
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nharmon
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response 349 of 457:
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Jun 2 15:06 UTC 2005 |
The old argument of "anyone who wants to be {root,ircop,sysop,admin} just
wants it for the power, or to further their agenda, otherwise, they wouldn't
want to be {root,ircop,sysop,admin}" has been used for decades to discourage
people from volunteering their time to improve a system.
I mean, am I the only one who was somewhat offended that when people started
suggesting that we need more volunteers that the response was that the user's
were to blame because of how staff is treated in BBS.
Which, by the way, I don't buy for a second. After system crashes, there is
usually an outpouring of gratitude and support from the users. Save for a few
trolls here and there, people generally support the staff.
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tod
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response 350 of 457:
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Jun 2 15:26 UTC 2005 |
re #344
Thanks for the status update. I can certainly sympathize. Best of luck to
STeve.
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rcurl
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response 351 of 457:
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Jun 2 16:22 UTC 2005 |
Would STeve be willing to have some staff apprentices work with him?
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nharmon
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response 352 of 457:
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Jun 2 17:14 UTC 2005 |
How about Grex call out for people who are willing to volunteer to help out
with the system. These volunteers can list their abilities, things they are
good at. Then you take that, create a skills matrix, and assign projects;
problems; etc. to teams of people with the skills applicable to that project;
problem; etc.
Then all Steve would really need to do is make sure things get down, and are
routed to the appropriate teams.
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tod
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response 353 of 457:
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Jun 2 17:30 UTC 2005 |
re #352
But that sounds like WORK! :(
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keesan
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response 354 of 457:
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Jun 2 17:59 UTC 2005 |
Glenda, could STeve show you how to help with this during the period when you
are not working?
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twenex
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response 355 of 457:
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Jun 2 18:48 UTC 2005 |
Re: #349. Nate, you're right.
To be fair, not all the sysadmins on Grex blame the users. For various
reasons, some of them unrelated to their capacities as sysadmin, I've
suspected for quite a while that some of those who do have a generalized
attitude problem.
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