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Grex > Music2 > #167: Recorded Music Delivery Formats Past & Present |  |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 126 responses total. |
krj
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response 33 of 126:
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Jan 4 19:05 UTC 1999 |
((winter agora #44 <---> music #167))
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krj
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response 34 of 126:
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Jan 4 20:15 UTC 1999 |
I vaguely recall that 16 RPM vinyl records were used for "talking books"
for the blind back in the 1960s and 1970s.
The MP3 format is sending the RIAA, the recorded music trade group, into
hysterics because of the ease of shipping bootleg MP3 tracks around
the internet. The RIAA sued in an attempt to stop the Diamond Rio
portable MP3 player from being shipped to consumers; the RIAA won a
preliminary temporary injunction but it was overturned after about a
week. The case turns on some tricky definitions of digital recording
copyright law -- basically, when the RIAA agreed to the Home Recording
Rights Act, they never foresaw that the PC would become a general purpose
digital copying machine.
News coverage of the case is summarized in the music conference item
titled "Changes In The Music Business."
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keesan
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response 35 of 126:
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Jan 5 02:46 UTC 1999 |
This sounds fun, we will read all about it there. Jim points out that the
above is a pun on 'general purpose calculating machine'. He giggles.
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orinoco
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response 36 of 126:
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Jan 5 15:21 UTC 1999 |
Something that has never made sense to me: why are the smaller records (45's)
made to spin faster than the big ones (LP's at 33 1/3 RPM)? It would seem to
me that the opposite would make more sense: make the small records spin at
the same speed or slower so you can fit as much as possible in the limited
space. Is there some reason, other than just convention, that it doesn't work
that way?
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steve
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response 37 of 126:
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Jan 5 17:00 UTC 1999 |
Audio quality, I thought was the reason that 45's spun at that
speed. In theory they have more bandwidth than 33's do. I'm not
sure it worked out that way in reality, owing to cut cutting in
the manufacturing process, but that should be why.
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krj
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response 38 of 126:
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Jan 5 17:58 UTC 1999 |
The history, if I remember it properly, is that Columbia Records
developed the 33 1/3 RPM Long Playing Record, and RCA countered with
the 45 RPM 7" record, rather than going along with Columbia's format.
This isn't quite as wacky as it sounds. In the 78 RPM era every
disc was a single; if you had a collection of them, they came in a big
book with record sleeves, which was called an "album." The RCA 45 RPM
discs were more convenient to handle than the 78s.
But I don't know why those standard speeds were chosen.
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rcurl
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response 39 of 126:
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Jan 5 18:41 UTC 1999 |
The response in #37 is the beginning of part of the answer. What matters
for bandwidth is the linear speed of the groove at the needle. This is
equal to the rotation rate in radians/second times the radius to the
needle. The 45 rpm record had recording down to a much smaller radius
than the 33 rpm records and therefore, for each bandwidth, had to rotate
faster. The 33 rpm recording was made possible by using a medium, vinyl,
that permitted good reproduction of finer grooves and hence shorter
wavelengths for the grooves (to reproduce higher frequencies).
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rcurl
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response 40 of 126:
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Jan 5 18:54 UTC 1999 |
s/each/equal
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krj
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response 41 of 126:
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Jan 5 19:27 UTC 1999 |
What were the original 45 RPM records manufactured from, then?
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scott
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response 42 of 126:
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Jan 5 19:30 UTC 1999 |
33 appeared on the market years later, after they found there was demand and
also after audio quality of the various compenents had godden good enough.
Faster speed == higher quality sound, so 33 rpm would not be as good as 45
rpm, unless you also figure in distance from the center like krj said.
(Neat story: Les Paul [yes, therye was a guy named Les Paul] used to overdub
from one record lathe to another. By using 18" disks at 78rpm, he had *great*
sound)
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scott
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response 43 of 126:
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Jan 5 19:30 UTC 1999 |
Oop,s credit Rane with the explanation about diameter vs. speed.
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md
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response 44 of 126:
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Jan 5 21:21 UTC 1999 |
I have a 12" vinyl disk made to be played at 45 rpm. It's a product
of the late 1970s, when the industry was trying to find a good way
to transfer digital recordings to vinyl. Andre Previn conducting two
Gershwin numbers. It's the only disk of that type I can remember
seeing.
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krj
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response 45 of 126:
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Jan 5 22:34 UTC 1999 |
(I have a similar recording, 12" 45 RPM LP-ish length: THE SOUND OF THE
SAND, by David Thomas and the Pedestrians, a spinoff project from Pere Ubu
with Richard Thompson on guitar. It's from the same era as md's disk.
I will have to go grubbing on the web when I get a chance. I could have
sworn that the introduction of 33 and 45 records were very contemporary.
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scott
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response 46 of 126:
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Jan 5 22:37 UTC 1999 |
I can't see how. They are vastly different in terms of capacity, and that
would be a hard sell for the company selling the 45s with such limited time
capacity. Maybe there were 10 or 12" 45rpm instead of the "single" size we
all know?
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eieio
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response 47 of 126:
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Jan 5 22:52 UTC 1999 |
Re many responses ago...
Yes, there are Audio DVDs. The sampling rate is something like 96K, though
I've only seen them as demos. Given that DVD has caught on as rapidly as it
has, it wouldn't surprise me to see Audio DVDs available through the usual
retail channels sometime in 1999.
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lumen
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response 48 of 126:
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Jan 6 00:20 UTC 1999 |
it was re #18: Yep, yep, yep. The latest issue of Stereo Review reports the
possibility of a format war, since Audio DVD has a similar competitor-- forget
the name. Check it out.
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krj
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response 49 of 126:
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Jan 6 00:32 UTC 1999 |
I found a web page: http://ac.acusd.edu/History/recording/notes.html
From the section "War of the Speeds:"
1948 - Columbia introduces on June 21 the first 12-inch 33 1/3 rpm
microgroove LP vinylite record with 23-minute per side
capacity, developed by Peter Goldmark in 1947, using players
made by Philco
1949 - RCA Victor introduces 7-inch 45 rpm micro-groove
"Extended Play" vinylite record and player; later records made
of polystyrene
1951 - "war of the speeds" ends as Victor sells LPs and Columbia
sells 45s.
(end quote)
This source confirms what I recall about the marketing drive behind
the 45 rpm record.
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keesan
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response 50 of 126:
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Jan 6 00:52 UTC 1999 |
Jim thinks 45s were used for single songs only, and the back side was not even
important. They were selling hits. No reason to put two hits on one disk.
Why and when did 45s stop? There are also 3" CDs (or were) for single hits,
that can be played (?) in a regular CD player. Anyone know more?
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mcnally
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response 51 of 126:
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Jan 6 02:24 UTC 1999 |
That's certainly what 45s came to be used for, though I'm not sure
whether or not that was the original intention. The practice of having
a big hit on one side and a lesser known track or alternate version on
the other gave rise to a number of phrases that persist in the music
industry ("B-sides", "version")
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steve
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response 52 of 126:
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Jan 6 02:24 UTC 1999 |
I'll bet that the cassette hurt 45's, since you could take a
casette with you anywhere. I'll further bet that the final nail(s)
in the 45's coffin was the CD.
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bruin
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response 53 of 126:
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Jan 6 03:01 UTC 1999 |
BTW, back in the early 1960's, many Chrysler Corporation models had the option
of a 45 rpm record player. This option was dropped very quickly when
carowners complained about records being broken in the car phonograph.
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omni
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response 54 of 126:
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Jan 6 07:55 UTC 1999 |
I have a record, a 33 1/3 whose master was not a typical "master". This one
was mastered on 35mm film. It sounds like a CD, even though it's a record.
The company is Command Records, and the artist is Doc Sevrenson. Y'all ought
to hear it. It's really amazing.
I'll bring it to a potluck one of these days.
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mdw
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response 55 of 126:
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Jan 6 10:14 UTC 1999 |
By the 60's and 70's, almost all record players came with options to
play 33, 45, & 78's. For 45's, there was usually some sort of insert
that you could pop up or put in, to accomodate the larger hub opening on
45's. 78's were originally designed to use a much larger needle, so
would have required a different needle to play correctly. Sometimes you
would find 45's sold in magazines and the like. Instead of a rigid
disk, you would get a flexible square vinyl recording, bound in the
publication, that you could cut out and play. These only had grooves on
one side. Some reasons why 78's had pretty much vanished by the 60's.
The records had a lot more hiss on them. They wore out much faster.
And much of the music had gone out of fashion.
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scott
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response 56 of 126:
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Jan 6 12:10 UTC 1999 |
I recall (creaky old voice) record players where a little lever would flip
the needle cartridge over, exposing a different needle for playing 78's.
I also remember occasional records that were laminated into the back of cereal
boxes (The Archies had a few that way) to be cut out and played.
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mcnally
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response 57 of 126:
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Jan 6 17:12 UTC 1999 |
Yep, I remember those. They always sounded horrible and usually warped
within a week (if they weren't seriously warped from the beginning..)
Maybe that's where I acquired my appreciation of the wacky recording-
speed manipulations dub-masters do when they're mixing up the dub version
of a popular track.. :-)
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