response 34 of 73:

Jan 4 17:46 UTC 2002

<bow>
i have names if you need examples.
i went to a school filled with these people.
such bets as "who can get the most money out of a guy before doing anything"
"who looses thier virginity last but has the most boys trailing them"
yha

response 36 of 73:

Jan 4 21:48 UTC 2002

I didn't mean for #30 to be taken very nasty. just as you didnt think your
behavior in party should be taken nasty i guess. your posts are fairly well
written and you seem mature and witty in bbs. so i was taken aback by how you
behaved. in any case, i agree it's quite rude to act sexually interested in
someone and then make them feel dumb for reciprocating the interest. do you
think there are people that encourage this behavior? seems there are a lot
of people, who, once they *know* they can sleep with someone whenever they
want, they are no longer interested. (this is the part where things go back
to the original header "sex and ownership".)

response 38 of 73:

Jan 4 21:56 UTC 2002

ok, i went to school with these people

response 40 of 73:

Jan 4 22:00 UTC 2002

#36> I'll admit that, depending on my mood, I can come off as a blazing jerk
in party. Depending on who's there (and this doesn't apply to the case in
question), it can even be deliberate (there was a time years ago when Greg
and I didn't exactly get along like troopers in Party, f'rinstance).
 
Sure, people of both genders use sex as a tool for power. When men do so, it's
an acquisition technique: How many fawning women can I get? When women do so,
it's a seduction technique: How much can I get from each man? (Those are gross
generalizations, too.)

response 42 of 73:

Jan 4 22:07 UTC 2002

yha, high school. my collage carrier, so far as it exists to this point,
has not exactly been a social extraviganza

response 44 of 73:

Jan 4 22:45 UTC 2002

There's more than one kind of cock-tease.  There are the malicious ones, who
get a power rush out of deliberately manipulating men, and there are the ones
who flirt for attention and just don't know how to tell when they're
crossing the line.  Innocent, but obnoxious.  

response 46 of 73:

Jan 5 00:04 UTC 2002

only if he's created the unrealistic expectation of nookie

response 48 of 73:

Jan 5 00:38 UTC 2002

Then how 'bout "only if he used that expectation to manipulate you."?  If
someone is flirty and physical with me, I make a proposition, and I get turned
down, then there's not necessarily any harm done.  But if that proposition
is used to guilt-trip or blackmail me, or if the promise of getting laid is
being held out like a carrot to get favors out of me, then I start to get
pissed.

response 50 of 73:

Jan 5 22:03 UTC 2002

if you proposition a man who's touchy and flirty and he's not interested then
he's either scared or wants you to TAKE him, by hook or by crook.

response 52 of 73:

Jan 6 06:10 UTC 2002

okay so then whats exactly the difference between touchy and flirting and
creating an expectation of sexual readiness?

response 54 of 73:

Jan 6 06:48 UTC 2002

well i'm hoping a *reasonable* person is willing to provide an answer.

response 56 of 73:

Jan 6 18:33 UTC 2002

In party I gave one example. I had invited a friend from Maine for a weekend,
and it was clear that that weekend would involve sex. A mutual friend from
Saginaw also wanted to visit. Both me and the woman from Maine asked the third
person repeatedly if she was interested in a threesome. Her words, repeatedly,
were, "We'll see" and "Maybe." We told her repeatedly that it was cool if she
didn't want to have sex, no problem, just tell us so we didn't get our
expectations up. Nope, "we'll see" and "maybe." Weekendcomes and goes, no
threesome, which was cool, but she admits later that she never had any
intention of having sex with us, and that she wasn't that sort of girl, etc.
 
So one "reasonable expectation" is, if I ask you if you're interested in sex,
and you say, "Maybe," then the reasonable expectation is that you haven't yet
ruled out the possibility. The direct approach, but most people are too shy
for the direct approach.
 
Another example: If you ever see me in party with mooncat, there's a
better-than-even odds that I'll hit on her, or make some other sexual
innuendo. She and I have an undestanding: She's not interested, I'm interested
but realize she isn't and don't really mind, and she doesn't care how much
I flirt with her as long s I keep my hands to myself and not sabotage any
serious relationships she might have. Groovy. I have no expectation of sexual
readiness on her part, so if she flirts back with me (which she does), I don't
consider that cockteasing.
 
Another example: A week or two back, oval, you asked me here, in this
conference, if I would have sex with you. I answered honestly, because I don't
know you well enough to know whether you were joking, flirting, or serious
(I assumed you were either joking or flirting). Since the question was not
part of a string of flirtations, I didn't consider it to be a profound
indication of sexual readiness, but if you'd followed my answer up with,
"Cool, wanna meet in party and see where it goes?" I would have taken THAT
as a proposition.
 
If you want a clear set of rules that handles every scenario, I can't give
you one. There ARE clear examples of creating an expectation (or not), but
there are likewise many scenarios where the only way of determining
expectations is by asking. Another example: I was flirting online with a guy
who, as far as I knew, was heterosexual  and in a monogamous marriage. As far
as I was concerned, those two details meant that any flirting I did would be
taken as "just playing." He surprised me when he telled me with: "Sorry I'm
not flirting as much with you today. I'm trying to figure out how to tell my
wife about this." [paraphrase, it's been a long time] My initial reaction was
to laugh at him (remember, I admitted to being a cocktease myself, in the
past), then realized that, while I was fully aware of what my intentions were,
someone else could have made other, similarly reasonable conclusions. So I
try not to flirt with people I'm not interested in, now (at least willing to
consider the potential for sex). But I also keep in mind that many people DO
flirt with no intention, and that's ok.