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Grex > Helpers > #140: Grex System Problems - Spring 2005 | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 457 responses total. |
slynne
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response 321 of 457:
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Jun 1 00:24 UTC 2005 |
resp:315 as it happens, I agree with you. I cant think of any good
solutions though. I dont personally have the time to learn how to fix
grex's issue myself. I dont know anyone else who might have the skills
and who would be willing to help out. I wish I did.
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jep
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response 322 of 457:
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Jun 1 13:11 UTC 2005 |
Yeah, identifying the problem in this case is easier than fixing it.
Grex's staff has been very exclusive and non-trusting of other users.
It's worked pretty well in the past, but now that they're losing
interest and dropping off in activity level, there are no replacements
and no method for bringing in any new staff members. It might be a
good idea for the Board to put some serious thought into the matter and
formulate a plan of some kind. I know the idea has been mentioned in
coop before, but nothing came of it.
Mdw and valerie are gone, janc and steve are about half here (with
amazing bursts of energy at times), i just keeps cranking along
invisibly but isn't participating in conferences much any more. With
all due respect for all of these people, they don't seem like active
users in Grex's current environment. It's harder to imagine any of
them returning to active participation than just going away. When they
do, or at least if they do, who runs Grex?
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mary
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response 323 of 457:
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Jun 1 15:49 UTC 2005 |
I think there are some important questions that deserves to be mentioned,
like, why should a qualified person want to volunteer their time for Grex?
Is the sense of community persuasive enought to be worth the effort? Is
the time donated appreciated? Do they like the people that will benefit
from their generosity? Is Grex a fun place worthy of support?
It may not be the fault of the staff and potential volunteer that we're in
this pickle.
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other
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response 324 of 457:
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Jun 1 16:04 UTC 2005 |
Mary has a good point. Anyone doing a simple cost/benefit analysis of
being root staff of grex would be have to be either crazy to do it, or
they'd very likely have some kind of agenda. In either case, they're
not very attractive candidates for the job. That leaves only those who
are really interested in the job, or at least in the skills that having
the job will help develop (like a healthy insensitivity to harsh and
worthless criticism).
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nharmon
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response 325 of 457:
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Jun 1 16:20 UTC 2005 |
From looking at http://www.grex.org/staffnote/, one would get the
impression that Grex is overflowing with staff members. And this might
discourage people from volunteering. Perhaps we can trim this list?
Re: 323 and 324, We all understand Grex Board's reluctance to just hand over
the keys to someone they don't know. This is why it is necessary to constantly
bring in new volunteers, people who gradually are trusted with more of the
system. But that doesn't seem to be happening. How many people on the list
of Grex staff started working as staff in the past 2 years?
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mary
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response 326 of 457:
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Jun 1 16:35 UTC 2005 |
That list is out of date. Current staff, as I know it:
steve (STeve Andre)
kip (Kip deGraff)
gelinas (Joe Gelinas)
i (Walter Cramer)
cross (Dan Cross)
spooked (Michelangelo Giansiracusa)
arthurp (Charles Mitchell)
remmers (John Remmers)
mdw (Marcus Watts)
srw (Steve Weiss)
janc (Jan Wolter)
Of those eleven, three have are new to staff within the past two years.
I hope I haven't missed anyone.
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rcurl
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response 327 of 457:
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Jun 1 17:11 UTC 2005 |
How many of these can fix newuser?
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albaugh
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response 328 of 457:
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Jun 1 17:47 UTC 2005 |
If grex cannot fulfill its mission - which necessarily means having a working
newuser - then it has no business asking for donations to support that
mission. The board must realize this as being part of its responsibility to
address. If everyone is weary of grex for one reason or another, then fine,
turn off its nonexempt / charitible status, and turn it into a private club,
one which may or may not work at any particular time, depending on whether
or not anyone feels like addressing any problems which may crop up.
Call a spade a spade!
(this really belongs in coop, I know)
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gull
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response 329 of 457:
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Jun 1 17:57 UTC 2005 |
Re resp:317: My understanding is you don't volunteer, you get invited.
Re resp:322: Given the beatings staff takes in the conferences, if I
were a staff member I'd probably avoid them, too.
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eprom
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response 330 of 457:
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Jun 1 18:11 UTC 2005 |
I'm getting backtalk errors when I try to erase or hide a response
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cross
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response 331 of 457:
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Jun 1 18:38 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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jep
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response 332 of 457:
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Jun 1 18:41 UTC 2005 |
Mary, how many of your list are actively working on anything for Grex?
Loginids kip and mdw haven't logged in since February so I assume they
are "staff emeritus".
I am not familiar with the activities of the staff in general. I am
only aware of actions by i, steve and janc in the last 3 months. I
thought cross had resigned from staff, but if he's active, that's great.
I don't want to blame anyone for anything. The staff has done a
terrific job for years, and so has the Board. I do want to suggest
that, if the staff members we have can't keep Grex running, then
something needs to be done. Maybe Grex can ask for volunteers from the
users. The newuser program is critical to Grex. I suggest it's
important enough to the survival of Grex that it's worth changing
Grex's time honored practices in order to get it working.
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mary
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response 333 of 457:
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Jun 1 21:48 UTC 2005 |
That I know of there are only a couple of people on that list that know
the software well enough to fix newuser. And one of them is pretty much
not around.
I'm wondering, again, if it isn't time to drop PicoSpan and our newuser
program and go to Backtalk and Frontalk entirely. Now, I'm talking out of
ignorance here that Backtalk even has some type of an account setup
procedure that would allow us to dump newuser. But if so, it may make
sense. I know Jan has Backtalk working elsewhere on the web, what do
those systems use for account maintenance?
I'm very anxious to get newuser running. Even without some of the
damaged accounts restored. At least those affected would be able to
setup new accounts and again participate. We really, really must
make it a priority to not be using software or hardware that is
owned or configured in such a way that only one or two people can
dig us out if there are problems.
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naftee
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response 334 of 457:
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Jun 1 22:28 UTC 2005 |
re 322 You're making yourself invisible by having your responses deleted.
oops
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cross
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response 335 of 457:
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Jun 2 01:15 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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keesan
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response 336 of 457:
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Jun 2 01:48 UTC 2005 |
I think grex is nearly perfect the way it is, apart from the broken newuser
and an occasional crash.
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mary
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response 337 of 457:
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Jun 2 02:15 UTC 2005 |
After speaking with John this evening, about the newuser program, I
realize I really don't know enough about it to suggest changes. Moving to
Backtalk we'd still need newuser. It's not there just for Picospan. I'm
learning.
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mary
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response 338 of 457:
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Jun 2 02:28 UTC 2005 |
As to Dan's comments - I'm sorry you're feeling so burned on Grex. I'm
worried and looking to improve things, which I guess means I'm not
burned. I've been here from day one and we're not big on fast changes,
that's for sure, but we are big on being a user run system, where things
happen by consensus, if at all. And we're an open system where anyone
who finds us gets to act out in ways they couldn't in grade school. And
we don't have much money. And we depend on voluteers to keep the wheels
spinning. I consider it sheer magic we've lasted this long. Wow.
Think about it.
I'm also pretty darn good at hanging in there with problems rather than
throwing up my hands and walking away. Someday, Grex will end. Yep.
It will. But I'm hoping it's not for a while yet.
So, my next project: Lighting a Fire Under STeve. I plan to call him
and explain how Grex is at his mercy. I'll offer to take him to Zing's
for dinner. Shameless manipulation. Wish me luck.
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cross
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response 339 of 457:
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Jun 2 03:01 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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naftee
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response 340 of 457:
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Jun 2 03:06 UTC 2005 |
I enjoy reading cross' GreXsoft item in the garage conference. Everyone
should check it out.
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jep
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response 341 of 457:
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Jun 2 03:38 UTC 2005 |
Good luck, Mary.
Let me give a little of my perspective on what Dan was talking about,
and how it conflicts with what Mary was talking about in resp:338.
Mary said Grex is run by the users. It is, to a point, but the users
are given the level of consent allowed to them by a very small and
select group. Mary is "in". Jan is "in", and Marcus, STeve, Valerie,
John Remmers, and as many as several others, but certainly no more
than several. That group makes all of the decisions about the staff,
and all of the real decisions about how Grex is going to be run. It
always dominates the Board and always has, and it always will. It's
the group recognized by the peripheral users like myself as the group
which "gets it" about how Grex is supposed to run. If any of the
peripheral users didn't agree with that group, they would go away (and
this has happened), because it's just not worth it to push anything
against that group.
When the in group stuck with STeve about SunOs for an extra decade,
then it was dang well written in stone that Grex was going to be on
SunOs. When that group finally conceded it was plain unreasonable to
keep running on SunOs, it took 3 more years to get onto PC hardware.
I've been rooting for cross to gain influence and bring some new ideas
into the staff for years... something like 5 years I think. He has
fought and clawed and scratched and beaten people up to edge his way
into having some say for all of that time (from my peripheral
perspective) and now he says he's worn out. It is *hard* to break
into that circle, if it's possible at all, and it's not worth it for
anyone but a fanatic. But the "in" group is anti-fanatic, too. Aruba
entered it, and maybe srw could have. So I guess there's a way but it
seems pretty dang rare to me and I'm not sure it's possible any more.
It's been fine, the "in" group has done a fine job of keeping things
usable and comfortable for everyone else. It's not a tyrannical group
at all, as long as you don't oppose any of it's core principles such
as the technical infallability of mdw and steve.
But now the "in" group is shrinking and moving on to other things. I
already referred to mdw and valerie abandoning Grex, and others being
less interested. I don't blame them; everyone changes over time, but
there's no one around and acceptable to take their place.
Given an unexpandable core but one which can diminish, and it's
inevitable that an organization is going to fade in time. M-Net's
entire core vanished, then the peripheral group collapsed and formed a
new core, then that vanished, too. The result can be seen. (M-Net
has 6 eligible voters, and didn't manage to have an election in April
as required by the by-laws.) There but for the grace of <insert deity
here> goes Grex.
Grex needs to bulk up it's core, but the "in" group here has as one of
it's very highest principles than no one else "gets it". The silent
majority of us peripheral users support their belief, too.
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naftee
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response 342 of 457:
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Jun 2 04:33 UTC 2005 |
jep, you are one messed-up guy. M-net has several very fine and talented
staff members who actually enjoy keeping the system running.
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eprom
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response 343 of 457:
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Jun 2 04:47 UTC 2005 |
it'd be nice if we could post edit our posts....I made a boo-boo :O
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glenda
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response 344 of 457:
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Jun 2 07:10 UTC 2005 |
STeve is working on it as he has time. He is having a real time crunch at
work with many machines there acting up, budget time for purchase of new
machines with their installation problems (and what looks like a bad batch
of Dells). When choosing between the paying job and volunteer Grex to spend
limited time and energy on, I'm sorry, but the paying job has to win.
Especially this summer when my job gets dropped from 20 hrs/wk during the
semester to just 4 wks of work from May through September.
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cross
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response 345 of 457:
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Jun 2 13:06 UTC 2005 |
This response has been erased.
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