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Grex > Coop > #267: Feb 2010 Board Meeting Minutes | |
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| 25 new of 66 responses total. |
richard
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response 32 of 66:
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Feb 20 20:19 UTC 2010 |
re #14 in what way was Remmers' Posterus forum for Grex divisive? All
it did was provide a place to have an open discussion. Is Cross saying
he does not want an open discussion. Also Cross shouldn't be
lambasting Remmers 'bad ideas' since the ideas he's had, at least the
one to start validating new users, is killing Grex. Was any discussion
made at the board meeting about removing the validation patch from new
user?
I am concerned by Cross's statement that Remmers returning to staff is,
in his opinion, "something of a coup by the Grex old-guard." This
makes it seem like he sees a power struggle going on. What power
struggle? If Cross, or any of the other staff members, are seeing
themselves as in 'control' around here and worry about 'coups'
and 'losing control', that is not only paranoia but goes against grex's
very principles. I don't even know why Cross wants to continue on
staff this year since he is deployed overseas. Seems like it would
hardly be a priority and if he is staying on staff under such
circumstances, is it because he sees some power struggle and wants to
prevent the return of the 'old guard' here?
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cross
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response 33 of 66:
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Feb 20 23:27 UTC 2010 |
It was divisive, Richard, because most the traditional place for
such discussions has been M-Net. John created a forum that he
controlled, where the creation of new 'items' had to be done,
basically, by him. That's the antithesis of an open discussion,
Richard. It also fragmented the discussion. When that was pointed
out to John his response was, "Well, I think I'll leave things the
way they are." Not exactly in the spirit of working with others,
is it?
John's retained sole control of Grex resources before (like the CVS
server). And he's been asked several times to do things for Grex
in the last few years, but has always declined; why the change of
heart now?
But tell you what. Richard, why don't you just ask John what his
motivation is for joining staff?
And further, why does John get the green light when Tonster doesn't?
And as for user validation, well, how do YOU propose to counter
Chad and mickeyd crashing Grex all the time, Richard? And how is
it killing Grex? Perhaps you forgot when Grex was constantly down
because Chad and Mickey were crashing it all the time?
Tell you what Richard. If you value open discussion so much, why are
you so eager to put someone who has a history of closing things up in a
position to do it again?
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krj
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response 34 of 66:
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Feb 23 01:12 UTC 2010 |
M-net might be the traditional place for reporting on grex being
down. It is in no way the traditional place for discussing
"What should we do with Grex, in the vision thing?" because there
has been no other place. Dan, your inability to see that the
abusive outpouring from M-netters, and the refusal of substantial
portions of the Grex community to have anything to do with M-net,
are simply astonishing to me.
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cross
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response 35 of 66:
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Feb 23 01:51 UTC 2010 |
resp:34 So Ken, after complaining about not having access to validate new
users, have many have you validated? You throw a lot of stones, but live
in just as much of a glass house as anyone else.
I'm not opposed to a place that isn't M-Net, but I don't want it controlled
by a single person.
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krj
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response 36 of 66:
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Feb 23 02:16 UTC 2010 |
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krj
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response 37 of 66:
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Feb 23 02:22 UTC 2010 |
Dan #35: Cool, a totally unrelated ad hominiem attack! Those are
the best.
Yup, in the interval between the time I volunteered to do user
validation, and the time I got set up to do it, all the motivation
dribbled away. (Four months? Six months?)
(Most of that was due to other social events on
Grex having nothing to do with any participants in this discussion.)
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cross
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response 38 of 66:
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Feb 23 02:39 UTC 2010 |
resp:37 Ad hominem? After you find my substantial inabilities astonishing?
If Grex is so horrible, Ken, why do you keep showing up? And substantial
proportions of the Grex community refuse to have anything to do with M-Net?
How, exactly, do you define that? I think that most grexers dual hat.
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veek
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response 39 of 66:
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Feb 23 02:56 UTC 2010 |
This response has been erased.
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veek
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response 40 of 66:
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Feb 23 12:49 UTC 2010 |
a point in favor of M-Net.. most of their cruft is restricted to
#general and they generally leave #grex alone. It really is the most
elegant solution in terms of interface and stuff AND a LOT of Grexers
hang out there anyway.. in fact who doesn't?? (rane, sindi, bellstar
anyone else??)
Anyway, why don't we meet on SDF (sdf.lonestar.org) when Grex goes
down. 'bboard' = fronttalk and 'com' = party. They had no inhibitions,
and stuck up a notice on their site inviting Grex users to migrate to
their server when Grex was down so.. it would make sense for us to take
their advice <g>
'ANONYMOUS' and 'GENERAL' would fit the bill.. you can, it seems, even
create a new board 'M' just like that.. so.. if ppl are interested, let
me know and I shall investigate further (by creating a 'GREX' board on
SDF and checking to see if it's workable/or someone else can take this
over and act as master of ceremonies..) Their 'bboard' interface is
very similar to fronttalk and they seem to have some sort of php
interface to bboard so web access may work. I suppose the polite thing
would be to mail emm and ask if it's okay.. so.. if everyone is okay
with this.. or we just use Posterus or M-Net. I'm NOT keen on splitting
this 3 ways :)
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remmers
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response 41 of 66:
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Feb 23 14:03 UTC 2010 |
Re resp:32 - Thanks for the support, Richard. The steps taken to
restrict access to the system were probably necessary, alas. One
of the challenges facing Grex right now is how to get back on a
growth path without incurring collateral damage from twits.
My thinking was that resp:14 was a bit of pot-stirring that was
best ignored, but maybe I should set the record straight on a few
things. I never "lobbied vigorously" for a CMS. My recollection
of the CVS server business is different from Dan's. And although
Dan is a board member who believes that M-Net is the best place to
hold Grex discussions when Grex is offline, Dan wasn't speaking for
the board on this issue - there are two board members who are on
record as believing the opposite.
As to why I volunteered to return to staff in December? Well,
because it appeared that Grex was in danger of sinking into oblivion.
In particular, Dan was calling for a permanent shutdown. I wasn't
ready to see it happen, and neither were a lot of other people, to
judge from the turnout at the December board meeting and the
discussion that took place there.
I'm here to help out, not "take control" as resp:14 suggests. Like
other people, I throw out ideas from time to time as to directions
the system might take, some of which are probably ok and some of
which are probably lousy, but I'm a team player who doesn't make
changes without concensus. I was a root staff member on Grex for
about 15 years starting in 1991, and that's the way I played it.
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tonster
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response 42 of 66:
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Feb 23 15:22 UTC 2010 |
I find it curiouser and curiouser that I've offered a number of ideas
and specific options I'd be willing to help out with for places to meet,
and have been pretty much ignored. I've also offered to help out on
staff, and pretty much been ignored there too. I guess I don't know who
all is on the board and staff, but the only people I've really seen
respond to my offers are remmers, mary, jep, and cross. Should I take
that as a hint?
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mary
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response 43 of 66:
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Feb 23 15:43 UTC 2010 |
It's how Grex works. Think slow. Real slow. It has nothing to do with
you, Tony, it's the process. People come up with things that need to be
done, even agreeing to do them, but then the ball gets dropped. I don't
have a solution. The people dropping the balls are nice people. But the
effect is a leadership void.
I hope you get added to staff real soon. Please don't be discouraged.
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kentn
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response 44 of 66:
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Feb 23 18:44 UTC 2010 |
Re 43: I agree.
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tod
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response 45 of 66:
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Feb 24 23:18 UTC 2010 |
re #42
Give it another ten years, Tony. They still haven't decided if you're
part of the "collateral damage from twits" mainstream.
I don't think anyone was seriously calling for a permanent shutdown of
Grex but I do believe many were postulating options for its hosting.
Too bad opinions require a prePosterous vetting - especially Tonster's.
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goose
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response 46 of 66:
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Feb 25 17:16 UTC 2010 |
RE #43 - I don't come around here much anymore, so my opinions may carry
little weight and that's fine with me however Mary's comment about slowness
made me sit up and take notice.
I think part of the slow decline of Grex can be blamed on this slowness. I
agree that some decisions should be pondered and discussed at great length.
But some decsions need to be made in a faster fashion and I'm of the opinion
that the snails pace of decision making by the board/staff/etc over the last
<gasp> nearly 20 years (OMG, it has been that long hasn't it?) have created
a stagnation in what the "community" could be. I may be wrong, but years ago
I felt that Grex and sister community M-Net/Arbornet were way ahead of the
curve in terms of, for lack of a better term, Social Networking. And the
measured pace, especially here on Grex, made for a situation where the whole
world sped by. Maybe that's good, maybe that's bad. But I think that
anything decided could ultimately be undone if after a little reflection the
decision was agreed to be bad/wrong/etc., but instead we wait. Wait for
features to be added, wait while discussion is prlonged to the point of the
dead horse being a fossil, wait until a userbase is reduced to a handful of
what it was in it's heyday.
I'm not nostalgic for the M-Net that I enjoyed back in the late eighties/early
nineties or the Grex that sprung up from the chaos that M-Net became, but I
do find it a little sad that a lot of potential was wasted.
I don't blame anyone in particular, and I'll take some blame, I wasn't
standing up to volunteer (mostly because I was already seeing a broken system
I suppose, or maybe that's hindsight).
So, now thatI've complained, I need to figure out what constructive criticism
I can offer. Though I guess I'll remain part of the problem since I've no
time to offer being staff or board or volunteer. I have to remain one of the
members of the peanut gallery.
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tsty
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response 47 of 66:
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Feb 25 18:50 UTC 2010 |
w/b goose ... your thoughts are always wleome.
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richard
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response 48 of 66:
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Feb 25 21:09 UTC 2010 |
I don't see why Grex shouldn't *immediately* take up Tonster's offer to
host Grex at his house. Put him on staff asap and tell him to go over
to Provide.net and get everything out of there. Clearly a third party
co-lo no longer works for Grex because there aren't enough people on
staff to get anyone over to where the box is to re-boot it or service
it and thus you get this down time that kills casual user interest in
coming here. Why should there be any delay in taking up Tonster's
offer?
Is the intent for the board to wait to make any decision until
provide.net locks its doors and throws the box outside on the sidewalk?
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mary
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response 49 of 66:
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Feb 25 21:20 UTC 2010 |
I agree with Richard. Tony has proven himself with years of service to M-
Net. His offer is generous. He appears to be a respected and talented
team player. Provide is no longer a good option for Grex.
I have a few questions and concerns but I always seem to find something to
worry about. I'm trying to stay realistic here and I'm hoping we get Tony
on-board ASAP.
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slynne
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response 50 of 66:
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Feb 25 22:02 UTC 2010 |
FWIW, I think grex should take Tony up on his offer too. I doubt anyone
has any objections based on his character or anything like that.
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goose
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response 51 of 66:
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Feb 25 22:23 UTC 2010 |
This response has been erased.
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tonster
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response 52 of 66:
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Feb 26 02:06 UTC 2010 |
resp:49: feel free to ask any questions or show any concerns here. it's
not like anyone besides you, remmers, or cross is going to.
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nharmon
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response 53 of 66:
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Feb 26 03:31 UTC 2010 |
Do any of the ESX hosts run V-replicator?
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tonster
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response 54 of 66:
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Feb 26 04:08 UTC 2010 |
I'm rebuilding the host that grex would run on soon. I can put pretty
much any vmware on it at this point. I haven't decided which version
I'll put on though.
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tsty
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response 55 of 66:
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Feb 26 22:49 UTC 2010 |
i support (and supported) tonster for satff a whiel back ... it;s in tehere.
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tsty
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response 56 of 66:
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Feb 27 08:05 UTC 2010 |
re 48 ... simply because yo are not runing -nor directing- grex, that;s why
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