response 32 of 84:

Dec 31 03:26 UTC 2001

I vote yes!

response 34 of 84:

Dec 31 17:18 UTC 2001

or stops bothering to call you a pedophile:)
but yha, it's all about the squishy luv thing
or at least about how fucked up you are

response 36 of 84:

Dec 31 21:54 UTC 2001

and I suppose it can be amusing sometimes to think senna meant 
something more when he said "more meat to it."

But seriously, I think we get enough of the joking and crude comments 
that may come from misinformation about sex, or perhaps the attitudes 
that surround various taboos.  We're just attempting to talk 
intelligently without feeling the need to coat it with raunch.

However, analyzing the issues to death is extreme in the other 
direction; thus, I suppose, we attempt to discuss without psychobabble 
or detached clinical stances.  Honesty is good, but I think we are 
trying to find a balance.

response 38 of 84:

Jan 3 23:05 UTC 2002

does he keeo the cock?

response 40 of 84:

Apr 3 01:56 UTC 2002

I have a question.

Does anyone besides jaklumen have a clue what Exodus International is/does?

Everyone's doing it, I'll add a website:  www.bridges-across.org

response 42 of 84:

Apr 3 03:59 UTC 2002

Exodus International teaches gays to be straight.

response 44 of 84:

Apr 3 15:19 UTC 2002

        This is terribly, terribly un-PC, but I think I have a handle on
another reason the idea of reparative therapy might be reasonable.  I've run
into quite a number of people, personally, who have attractions to both
genders, but have had such strained relations, or one sufficiently strained
relation, with the opposite gender they've turned solely to the same gender.
Oftentimes they overly strongly identify with their new preference, touting
to the world that they're gay, as if in an effort to convince themselves.
I can't see a reason why curing those problems, and those strained relations,
through therapy *wouldn't* be a good thing.

response 46 of 84:

Apr 3 21:02 UTC 2002

do they reparative therapy for those who want to go from straight to gay?

response 48 of 84:

Apr 3 22:06 UTC 2002

        There probably would be if straights were discriminated against
randomly, beat up, and ostracized from their families for being straight or
bringing home their opposite-sex partner.

response 50 of 84:

Apr 3 22:24 UTC 2002

        They don't get the full membership package, and sometimes suffer from
sarcasm and wit that can only be imagined in straight circles, but they don't
generally get beat up by bisexuophobes, or ostracized from their families.

        Is it as bad in the gay male community as it is in the gay female
community?  A lot of the lesbians I know really are in it for the benefits
package, and not a kinsey 6.

response 52 of 84:

Apr 3 23:54 UTC 2002

resp:47  No, Paul.  Reparative therapy isn't about "fixing" you if you 
are gay.  It is about investigating the "homo-emotional" and "homo-
social" issues behind the desires.  Having done so, and, perhaps, 
discovered problems, seeking to heal the damage caused by the 
problems.  Reparative therapy isn't an attempt to "cure" homo-sexual 
tendencies.  It is, in fact, understood as we begin down the road to 
reparation, that homo-sexual tendencies aren't some kind of disease 
that you can get a shot for and be all better.  Rather, we realize 
within ourselves that homo-sexual tendencies are the "band-aid", if you 
will permit the term, that we placed on our lives following the damage 
we perceived and placed there in an effort to deal with said damage.  
We do not say that "all gays" should participate in reparative 
therapy.  What we do say is, this has helped us and, if you are in the 
same boat we were and unhappy with the idea of same sex attraction 
(SSA), then this may be a solution you could look into.

That said, I feel that, after so much discussion, of which I have been 
a part, however unknowingly, that I ought to take some time here to 
clarify some things.

When Jon and I met, we had a lot of conversations, the result of which 
was a realization in myself that I was in a situation similar to that 
of Jon.  By this, I mean that I also had sexual attraction to both 
genders.  For a while, this was not a bad thing.  Occasionally, when 
Jon and I were together, one of us would spot a particularly nice-
looking specimen of either gender and point it out to the other one of 
us.  After a while, thoough, not to mention a little experimentation, I 
began to feel uncomfortable with it.  I still had the attractions, I 
couldn't deny them or make them disappear, but I was unhappy because of 
them.  

At one point, I remember Jon asking me if I could ever see myself 
taking a lover in addition to my relationship with him (we were engaged 
to be married at the time.)  By now, many of you know about my code of 
honor.  I replied, honestly, that I didn't think I could.  I said, I 
was a one partner person and that any other relationship I had would be 
a distraction for me, in part because of my Attention Deficit Disorder 
(ADD).  I know myself well enough to know that one partner or the other 
would end up neglected and that I was safer staying in a monogamous 
relationship.  

Jon and I had this discussion long ago and I want to share some of the 
more salient points with you all.  I'll admit that the idea of Jon 
taking lovers in addition to his relationship with me hurt deeply.  
Still, I love Jon in a way that I can't completely describe.  I can't 
see myself failing to forgive him if he chose to take a lover, even if 
that decision meant that I was hurt.  I can see that his taking lovers 
might do some damage to my ability to trust him.  The first few times 
he "cruised" for the anonymous encounters he mentioned in resp:0, I 
felt hurt.  However, I cannot honestly say that I would ever want to 
dissolve the relationship based on what many of my "girl-friends" 
(meaning friendly female companions) would define as cheating, in part 
because he has been completely honest with me about it when he knew 
there was a possibility that I might just say, "okay, that's the last 
time.  It's over."  So many ladies do that.  In a very real sense, Jon 
is my dearest friend and I don't think I could have made it through my 
own "repairs" without his help simply because he has been so 
understanding toward the issues underlying my own difficulties 
involving SSA.  

I won't say "Go do this!" like some kind of Used Car Salesman.  What I 
do say, however, is following intense therapy for a pair of incidences 
of sexual abuse that happened to me when I was 10 years old, I have 
noticed a profound healing taking place.  I can hold up my head and say 
that I am happy to be me and happy to be a woman.  I can look at a 
beautiful woman in a bikini and appreciate her innate beauty with only 
a brief thought toward her sexual appeal to me.  

With Jon, I will say that I probably didn't write this very well and, 
with him, I will also say that this has the chance of being 
misinterpreted in so many different ways.  Still, I'm sure you can read 
the emotion behind these posts and understand that these are more 
personal revelations than anything else.  These are something in the 
nature of wonderful news shared with good friends.  

I'm done.  Thank you for listening.

response 54 of 84:

Apr 4 00:26 UTC 2002

        Re #50:

        Well, being ostracized from "the family" is different than being
ostracized from one's family.  Completely.  You may have father or mother
figures in the family - I do, I've been a friend of the family for many many
years - but they're not the same as your parents.

        Re #51:

        I've always been confused when it comes to people having problems with
their attractions.  Even when I'm in a completely committed relationship, I'm
not dead, and I have attractions to other people - I'm about as close to a
Kinsey 0 as I know, so it's members of the opposite sex - but I'd always
thought that people had accepted it as a normal part of being in a
relationship, having attractions you didn't act on.  Heck, that's a part of
not being in a relationship, too, now that I think about it.

response 56 of 84:

Apr 4 00:40 UTC 2002

yea those groups hate me.