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| Author |
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| 18 new of 48 responses total. |
jazz
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response 31 of 48:
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Sep 7 03:08 UTC 1998 |
Hmmm, I'm not sure that there is a standard direction. What I've seen
and read of Native American shamanism usually agrees on the colours and the
symbols for the directions, but not always, and tends to disagree on the
animals and elements ascribed to the directions. I'm pretty sure that that
pattern's consitent with Gardner, and his influence Crowley, and his
influence, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, but I'm not sure if the
four-element theory was primarily Greek in origin or existed in pre-contact
European people.
Anyone know the answer to that?
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mta
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response 32 of 48:
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Sep 7 15:14 UTC 1998 |
The standard directions Rod described in resp:29 are the ones I use -- but
it's also qute possible to meditate on the quarters and see what they say to
you...
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bjorn
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response 33 of 48:
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Sep 7 16:03 UTC 1998 |
I guess I'll have to find where North, East, South, West are in relation to
the fire pit in my back yard.
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bjorn
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response 34 of 48:
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Sep 7 16:04 UTC 1998 |
Re #31: My friends in Winona discourage anything Crowley. Just thought you
might like to know.
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brighn
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response 35 of 48:
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Sep 7 16:05 UTC 1998 |
I've always gotten the sense that the dual-duality (i.e., four way) system
that Wiccans use is Platonic.
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brighn
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response 36 of 48:
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Sep 7 16:09 UTC 1998 |
(Bjorn slipped in)
Wiccans who practice anything remotely Gardnerian and then universally scoff
at All Things Crowleyite have no sense of history and no real sense
ofCrowley's role in the development of Gardnerian Wicca... it's akin to
praising Carl Jung and dismissing All Things Freudian... sure, Jung had plenty
of his own ideas, but he also took what he saw as the best ideas of Frued and
incorporated them into his own theories, just as Gardner took what he saw as
the best of Crowley.
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bjorn
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response 37 of 48:
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Sep 7 17:01 UTC 1998 |
I'm not sure what flavor of Wicca my friends emulate, so to speak. Heck, I'm
not even Wiccan, but I have been involved in definitively Wiccan rituals.
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kami
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response 38 of 48:
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Sep 8 01:38 UTC 1998 |
re: #36- Pretty accurate, Brighn.
Bjorn, Alister Crowley had a lot of influence on Gardiner, and thus on Wicca,
but if there is a hard way to do something, an easy way and a really
convoluted way- he'll choose the convoluted way or at minimum the hard way.
So take anything he has written with a large pile of salt.
As to the directions of the elements- yeah, the standard ones came from Europe
and especially from the Greeks, and your locale might seem physically
different, but consider a)archetypal/sybolic reality- and participating in
a common symbol set b)being able to work with other people as desired, without
jarring differences in imagery c)the full range of associations which are
mapped around the circle including age and season; E/Air=Childhood/Spring,
S/Fire=Youth/Summer/noontime, W=Middle Age/Autumn/afternoon, N=death and
birth/Winter/night. So if you go and swap Air and Water, the cycle goes
widdershins. Other changes create other kinds of confusion.
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bjorn
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response 39 of 48:
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Sep 8 02:01 UTC 1998 |
Thinking about geographical location in relation to the "corners", I'd
practically have to place water in the north, since from our house, the
man-made lake is north north-east.
As for my friends, they're pretty much of the take any Crowley book and read
only the first 3 chapters then stop kind of attitude.
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bjorn
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response 40 of 48:
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Sep 27 18:48 UTC 1998 |
Earlier in this item, colors for each element were stated, but I don't think
they were directly stated. If I were to get four bricks, each of a different
color, which color should be used for each element? I have an idea, which,
like many of mine in this conference is flavored by role-playing games, and
that idea was this: Air - Blue, Earth - Brown, Fire - Red, and Water - Green.
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kami
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response 41 of 48:
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Sep 27 19:15 UTC 1998 |
Not bad, Bjorn, if those work for you. In general
Air- yellow, light blue, white
Fire- red, orange, bright yellow or gold
Water- blue, blue-green, indigo or violet-blue
Earth-Green, brown,black
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bjorn
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response 42 of 48:
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Sep 27 21:47 UTC 1998 |
Hmm . . . well, I'll think on it. Perhaps a brick of each color of an element
shaped into some pattern at the corners.
How far from the edge of my firepit should I place such niceties?
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void
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response 43 of 48:
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Oct 3 22:02 UTC 1998 |
hmmm...as far as directions go, i seem to be all sideways:
north: fire
east: earth
south: air
west: water
a lot of people have looked at me peculiarly over this arrangement,
but it works better for me than any of the others i've tried.
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kami
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response 44 of 48:
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Oct 4 07:11 UTC 1998 |
How'd you come to it? Any idea?
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bjorn
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response 45 of 48:
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Nov 8 20:41 UTC 1998 |
In attempt to kick some life back into this item . . .
For the purposes of gaming, I am devising a outdoor lunar temple. However,
since I do have an idea in the back of my mind to build a Pantheon temple
(i.e. dedicated to all gods) temple sometime during my life, I seek
information. I have some to understand that "spirit" or "soul" is the 5th
element, and wonder where directionally this is represented? Perhaps it would
be easier if I re-worded this to ask which portion of the pentacle this is
represented by?
I will not go back to address what happened earlier in this item, although
I do have things to say about it both of a philosphical nature and of a
hindsight nature.
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kami
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response 46 of 48:
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Nov 9 21:10 UTC 1998 |
In some eclectic Wiccan and Wiccan-derived neopagan traditions, "spirit" is
the center of the circle, the 5th element. "4 elements and spirit". In other
traditions, "spirit" is either the "source"- the Ain Soph or Ain Soph Aur in
cabalistic terms, from which all else derives, also at the center of the
circle and above it, and/or at the top of the pentegram, or else "spirit" is
the confluence of all else- the synergy of all 4 elements and the spark of
divinity in all things/people, which meets at the center. In either case,
it really isn't separate in itself. It's not something you'd meditate on or
do a ritual about, as you might one of the elements. (Although a meditation
on the source might be pretty cosmic if you didn't totally trip out on it.)
A lunar temple is not the same as a pan-theon temple. Both are worthy ideas.
For various cultures, the moon may be male, female, both or neither. May be
brother, sister or daughter to the sun. May be a source of magic, healing,
illusion, madness or danger. Consider the purpose of such a temple, as well
as its placement and who would be welcome at it for worship or service. Who
is the moon to *you*.
A temple to all gods might be very simple and spare, with sacred fire, healing
or holy water, a place for meditation, and perhaps generic earth/sky icons.
Pretty hard to pull off, actually- to make it both general enough and
intentional enough. Have fun.
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bjorn
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response 47 of 48:
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Nov 9 21:28 UTC 1998 |
I have actually written an extensive template for my lunar temple, which
while mostly wiccan in decoration, it is dedicated to all lunar deities.
Some aspects of this temple for my game will change, such as directon
of the top of the pentacle/penatagram (which currently points east) and
the locations of th surrounding herb gardens - beneficial/benevolent
herbs to the front, harmful/malevolent herbs at the back, and
unknown/miscellaneous herbs to the sides. It has some Celtic and Gr/Ro
aesthitics as well: standing stone "gates", and columns (which happen to
be fashioned from white moonstone).
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kami
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response 48 of 48:
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Nov 10 02:16 UTC 1998 |
In the case of herbs which are useful in controlled amounts, how do you decide
where to put them? <g>
Put the top point West for water- the moon coming over/out of the water, or
North, the usual neutral direction. Or have it move by magic, always to point
in the direction of moonrise- that would be cool. Or don't use a pentegram
at all. What's it got to do with the moon, after all? Try a spiral or some
such.
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