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Grex > Coop > #336: The TSTY agenda for Grex Board, 2013 | |
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| 25 new of 35 responses total. |
jep
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response 3 of 35:
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Jan 28 05:42 UTC 2013 |
You should probably ask that in my campaign item, Todd, since I think it
is addressed to me.
Maybe we'll wind up going to Facebook some day. I don't know. It's a
different environment than I had envisioned. It's probably different
than anything I would ever envision.
On second thought, maybe it'd be better if I let TS answer it since it's
in his campaign item. Sorry. I have no answer for that question.
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tsty
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response 4 of 35:
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Jan 29 00:16 UTC 2013 |
i have notified the right people about my avaialble statement while
recognizing that those people have other thgns to do and i expect tht it will
show up in good time.
in the meantine, i pposted it here asa separate item (some things you do
are well worth imitating) and posted the command pointer in agora.
and i followed the dirctions issued so it;s all good as far as i;m concerned.
frankly, jep, your statemnt scared teh shiet out of me!
so the FIRST ORDER of oour SURVIVAL is to ASSURE that independent survival.
without that, nothing else matters and THAT is exactly what >I< stand for,
first and foremost.
others may disagree as is their wish, it is NOT mine!
i also noticed that our election got posted on the m-b0x, understandably,
since -they- may not want us! so they would have someting to say about it.
i had to create a new login to post over there, but it worked.
and i noticed that kite returned with (exxentially) my position.
we three have known each other for (dare i saye it) DECADES and each of
us credits each other for 'stuff.'
but this 'stuff' about merger (even as a -thought-) goes far too far
beyond the pale. but you are entitled.
if it generates some progressive activities (on either system) then it;s
all for the better. but i coould not, ever, support a combination.
WE ARE SEPARATE AND unEQUAL AND BOTH SHOULD STAND INDEPENDENTLY.
[sort of sorry for the yelling]
ther is no technical nor financial pressure on grex nor on the m-b0x.
we are both indebted to tonster and cross and kentn (among others - not
leaving anyone out on purpose) for their persistance / assistance and
motivation(s).
let the election proceed apace and i want grex to remain independent.
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tsty
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response 5 of 35:
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Jan 29 00:17 UTC 2013 |
please see beyond the personality snits ... they don;t count in reality.
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jep
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response 6 of 35:
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Jan 29 03:03 UTC 2013 |
You and I are not running against one another, TS. We're just promoting
our ideas against each other's ideas. We're going to remain friends
regardless of this election. I hope I will have other friends here,
even amongst people who disagree with my viewpoint about merging with M-Net.
I meant what I said in resp:1. Your ideas are needed now. If they are
good, I will support them myself, and vote for you myself, and endorse
you for the Board. But for me to do that, you have to show the ideas.
And I have to think they will work. The time to debate them is now, so
the membership can decide about them now, and base their vote on them.
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cross
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response 7 of 35:
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Jan 29 19:24 UTC 2013 |
resp:4 Why? And what does it mean to "stand independently"? Would
it REALLY matter to any of the people who feel so passionately about
Grex and M-Net being separate from one another if they were hosted
on the same hardware?
What do you define as Grex? What do you define as M-Net?
Most of the people who seem to care care only about the BBS. If
the data files for two BBS's live on the same physical machine and
some group of people use one and others use the other, does it
REALLY matter? Would anyone even be able to tell the difference?
We could probably merge the systems today and no one would notice,
aside from seeing more people logged in.
As an aside: I don't support TS for the board. He doesn't do
anything as (assistant) treasurer now, so I have little faith that
he'll do anything on the board going forward. In fact, it was so
bad that someone who donated money to Grex actually complained to
PayPal to get their money back because they were never validated;
others have been keeping track of such things since.
Further, TS has proven himself difficult to work with. I don't see
his being elected as working out all that well. He'll try to
overreach and exert control over things he doesn't understand.
I don't think he's a bad guy; he'd probably be a lot of fun to have
a beer with, but I think that JEP would be better suited to being
a board member.
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tod
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response 8 of 35:
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Jan 29 21:43 UTC 2013 |
it REALLY matter to any of the people who feel so passionately about
Grex and M-Net being separate from one another if they were hosted
on the same hardware?
dude, STeve won't be able to blame crashes on RAM if you colocate ;)
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cross
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response 9 of 35:
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Jan 29 22:35 UTC 2013 |
Heh.
Steve hasn't been involved in the day-to-day maintenance of Grex in years.
He wasn't involved in the present hardware, and hasn't expressed any interest
in the new hardware that we've been slowly working on.
Similarly with Marcus Watts. Marcus hasn't even logged in in years; emails
to him go ignored.
I suppose both may consider themselves staff. Beats me. No one has "removed"
them in any real sense, but just the same, neither does anything.
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tod
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response 10 of 35:
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Jan 30 04:06 UTC 2013 |
I don't see why Cyberspace, Inc can't be dissolved and Grex absorbed
into Arbornet's fleet of online charitable offerings. Who's with me?
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jep
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response 11 of 35:
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Jan 30 05:47 UTC 2013 |
re resp:7: I'd like to see the ideas he mentioned, and his thoughts on
how he would implement them. I'd like to see anyone's ideas.
Dan, I appreciate your comments of support for my idea and for me as a
contributor to the Board. I'll do the best I can for Grex if I am elected.
I am just about solely concerned with conferencing. I don't pay a lot of
attention to other activity. I will become aware of it before pushing
for things that will affect it. Is there much activity by users other
than BBSers which would be affected by a merger? Do you have any
concerns about that?
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kentn
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response 12 of 35:
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Jan 31 03:36 UTC 2013 |
How about Arbnornet is dissolved & M-Net absorbed into Cyberspace, Inc.?
No reason why it can't go the other way as far as I know.
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jep
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response 13 of 35:
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Jan 31 04:50 UTC 2013 |
Okay. Go convince Arbornet to do that.
I came here, to Grex, because it's Grex's time for an election and so
that's where I started. It doesn't really matter to me where the effort
is started. I don't think it's going to be a quick thing anyway. While
I'd like it to happen in a few months, a year or two years seems more
realistic to me.
Over on M-Net, they are practically up in arms against the idea right
now. It doesn't bother me. I've made all the same points there that
I've made here. I can wait until they calm down and think things over,
then pitch it again.
I can also face failure in this election here on Grex. Merging is an
idea, a new idea at that. If people think it's a terrible idea, they'll
defeat it, and vote against me. I can pitch it here again, too. Maybe
if it doesn't fly now, it'll get easier after people think about it for
a year or two.
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rcurl
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response 14 of 35:
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Jan 31 05:53 UTC 2013 |
It could be just a bad idea....
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tod
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response 15 of 35:
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Jan 31 06:13 UTC 2013 |
re #12
How about Arbnornet is dissolved & M-Net absorbed into Cyberspace, Inc.?
No reason why it can't go the other way as far as I know.
Only if the Grex board promises to continue censoring items.
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kentn
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response 16 of 35:
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Jan 31 13:59 UTC 2013 |
What censoring is the current Board doing? And what censoring is the
Grex membership (via their votes on policies) doing?
If Arbornet is not in favor of this so-called merger and is not willing
or able to manage the assets it acquires, then I don't see how this is
going to turn out as anything but bad for Grex/Cyberspace Inc.
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tod
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response 17 of 35:
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Jan 31 18:53 UTC 2013 |
If Arbornet is not in favor of this so-called merger and is not willing
or able to manage the assets it acquires, then I don't see how this is
going to turn out as anything but bad for Grex/Cyberspace Inc.
That's what has me so curious as to why jep makes a platform of the idea
Seems to me that fiduciary administration has been lacking and is a bigger
concern...bank, po box, paypal, members logs, all of that jazz are
out of whack at Arbornet. It was flat out dumped by the 2007 board.
Not good for a 501c3's health, imo
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jep
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response 18 of 35:
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Feb 1 02:11 UTC 2013 |
re resp:14: I think it's an idea that could work, and help Grex. (And
help M-Net, too.) I cannot do it on my own, and wouldn't if I could,
not something like this. How could I know if there's support without
suggesting it and pushing for it? Well, I've given it my best. Grexers
know, they can see, that I can be pretty energetic for something
worthwhile. I'll keep working on this, unless something changes, or
unless I decide it can't happen, because it's worthwhile.
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cross
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response 19 of 35:
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Feb 2 14:22 UTC 2013 |
I think that the percentage of people who care about this vis-a-vis
the total user populations of either Arbornet (read: M-Net) or
Cyberspace (read: Grex) is vanishingly small. The people who care
about the respective "culture" of either is also vanishingly small
when taken as a percentage of total users.
Most users come here for access to Unix and network resources; they
have no desire -- at all -- to participate in the "community." My
informal estimate is that >half of the revenue that was taken in
this past year was for increased access level, not for membership
in the "community." The vast, vast majority of users could care
less whether they're using one machine or the other.
Maybe JEP's idea is a bad one. But I think that most of the people
who care really don't know what they are caring about. If everything
were run on the same physical machine, most wouldn't notice. In
fact, some folks have suggested running Grex on a virtual hosting
provider; suppose that M-Net did the same and the two ended up on
the same physical computer. Would anyone care? Would anyone notice?
Would anyone even know to notice?
In short: none of this matters. People who speak of "preserving
Grex" or "preserving M-Net" are entirely missing the point: there's
nothing to preserve. The toxic nature of these communities killed
themselves off years ago, what's left is the same dozen or so people
writing the same things to each other again and again.
I say put them on the same machine, officially deprecate the
conferencing function, and work on getting new hacker blood involved;
align with the maker movement and see what sort of interesting
things people want to use Grex to build. Anything else is just a
distraction.
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jep
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response 20 of 35:
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Feb 3 03:28 UTC 2013 |
Dan, not much of what you said matters to me at all. I'm here for the
conferencing system. I'm certainly not going to be part of deprecating
that but would like to try merging it with M-Net's conferencing system.
I'm only aware of anything else even being here because you mentioned it
a couple of times. I have nothing against such activities, but I don't
know what it is that people are doing. I don't know what else is
happening on M-Net besides the conferences, either.
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tod
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response 21 of 35:
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Feb 4 20:36 UTC 2013 |
Dan, you're boring jep.
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jep
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response 22 of 35:
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Feb 5 01:24 UTC 2013 |
Not at all but thank you for misrepresenting my position in your effort
to establish you're at the forefront of whatever Grex decides, either
way it goes.
I don't know about the other activity that Dan mentioned. I just
haven't heard a lot about it.
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tod
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response 23 of 35:
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Feb 5 04:45 UTC 2013 |
re #22
I made my decision and voted. I think everyone has made up their mind.
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cross
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response 24 of 35:
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Feb 10 21:38 UTC 2013 |
resp:20 Then you're one of the dozen or so people who are a tiny fraction
of the active users of the system who care. Should we continue to cater to
this tiny minority, or start worrying about problems relevant to the rest of
the user base? Before, people have made the argument that the paying
membership subsidized the rest of the users, so somehow mattered more, but I
don't think this is the case anymore: my suspicion is that it's actually about
break-even at this point.
Note that deprecating the conferencing function does not mean disabling or
deleting it; it just means de-emphasizing it in favor of other, higher
priority things.
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jep
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response 25 of 35:
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Feb 11 03:20 UTC 2013 |
Nine people voted for the open Board of Directors seat. How many were
from outside the conferencing system? In what way did they care about that?
I don't know how to reach those people. I don't know how to communicate
with them about the things they care about, and the things I care about.
I don't have anything against them, but I don't know any way to receive
information about their concerns than to speculate in a void, which I
decline to do.
Deprecate the conferencing system? To what end? In what way? Do you
mean to turn control of Grex over to them? How is that going to work?
It is what I care about. It is what the people I know care about.
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tod
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response 26 of 35:
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Feb 14 05:41 UTC 2013 |
Are there 9 people in bbs?
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cross
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response 27 of 35:
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Feb 14 21:43 UTC 2013 |
resp:25 I don't know. But I think that Joe Gelinas said how many were not
members.
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