response 4 of 120:

Nov 16 18:54 UTC 2003

While I am no GM fan, I am not sure you can go wrong at $8500. I mean, 
at that price, does it really matter if it only lasts half as long as a 
Honda?

response 6 of 120:

Nov 16 20:43 UTC 2003

Yeah, but how often does a new car need to be fixed? Even if it is a GM 
car. Does it come with any kind of warranty?

response 8 of 120:

Nov 17 03:10 UTC 2003

The dealer I talked to told me there's basically no possibility of 
negotiating on price when you get the GM discount, because they're 
selling the car at factory price anyway.  I'll check on that (by 
asking for price at another dealership or two)... but does anyone know 
if it's true?

I wish the GM WWW sites showed the family discount in the price, so I 
could really compare their cars to others.

re resp:2: If someone is selling a 2 year old Corolla, chances seem 
pretty good it's got problems.

A year ago when I brought up the discussions about buying cars, I 
thought I'd prefer a used one.  I also thought I'd have the chance to 
take my time, check out different cars, and get to know a little about 
what I was doing.  Right now, if I came across a $2000-3000 used car 
that was pretty reliable, I'd buy it.  The problem I have is that I 
don't know how to tell a good used car from a bad one.

And I have got to get out of driving my pickup truck quickly.  I am 
spending $75 per week just in gas.  (I'll pay for a Cavalier in about 
3 years at that rate.)  The truck has 150,000 miles on it.  If 
something happens to it before I have another car, I am in a very 
difficult position.

I have spent maybe $2000 in car repairs this calendar year.  I'm not 
willing to pay for another car *and* keep a big repair bill too.

I'm focusing on gas mileage as my priority.  I have even considered 
the hybrid cars, Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid.  Unfortunately, 
I drive enough miles (25-30K per year) that the expected life span of 
the batteries (100,000 miles) might catch up to me before the price on 
the batteries drops enough to make replacement worthwhile.  Right now, 
replacement batteries are about $4000.  I expect I'll look at hybrids 
again in a few years. 

response 10 of 120:

Nov 17 07:51 UTC 2003

I would rate cars on the following :- 
- Price (ofcourse)
- Price and availability of spares. Do they have a 24 hour spares shop 
in your vicinity? Here, surprisingly, Mercedes spares are cheaper than 
Toyota.
- Free service with the new car. Here (Oman), Toyota gives 2-3 years 
of free service with the car depending on the model.
- Quality of service. Check with other owners. Also check how long 
they take to service your car. Here, Toyota services the car within 6 
hours. Mitsubishi takes a day. If informed a day in advance, Toyota 
even arranges for a car for the six hours.
- Check for warranty conditions. Here, Mitsubishi sends you a list of 
spares to be changed every year. If you fail to change them, the 
warranty is void.
- Resale value. If you plan to change your car in the next 4-5 years, 
how much would you get for it? How fast can you sell it off, if needed?

response 12 of 120:

Nov 17 11:55 UTC 2003

s/then/they

response 14 of 120:

Nov 17 13:58 UTC 2003

If you get GM discounts but you'd rather have a Toyota for quality, look
at the Pontiac Vibe (a re-badged Toyota Matrix, IIRC).  If they are not
discounting it, maybe you should ask why the other cars are going so cheap.

Re #2:  If the difference in gas mileage is 40 MPG vs. 35 MPG and
fuel costs $2.00/gallon, it would take... let's see.

        $6500 / [ (1/(35 mpg) - 1/(40 mpg)) * $2/gallon ]
     =  $6500 / ( 1/280 gallons/mile * $2/gallon )
     =  $6500 / (1/140 $/mile)
     =  910,000 miles to make up a difference of $6500 in initial cost,
        ignoring the time value of money.

This is rather extreme.  In contrast, the price-premium of a hybrid over a
conventional car is supposed to be about $1800, and the mileage improvement
is typically from 25 MPG to ~40 MPG.  

        $1800 / [ (1/(25 mpg) - 1/(40 mpg)) * $2/gallon ]
        = $1800 / (.015 gallon/mile * $2/gallon)
        = $1800 / ( $.03 $/mile )
        = 60,000 miles to make up the difference.

If gasoline cost $5/gallon, it would be 24,000 miles.

response 16 of 120:

Nov 17 15:41 UTC 2003

Don't assume that a used car (say 4 years old) would need the same amount of
repairs as the 1992 car you were driving.  WHat is the cost of a 4 year old
Toyota?

response 18 of 120:

Nov 17 15:50 UTC 2003

John, my mom drives a Cavalier - it's her 4th one.  If you want, give her a
call and ask her - she also got hers on the discount.

response 20 of 120:

Nov 17 16:56 UTC 2003

My saturn was a good car, very dependable, but after 60,000 it started using
oil.  on the other hand, a guy I worked with had the same saturn I had and
had 200,000 on it with no oil usage, but he did maintain the oil changes at
3000 which I did not.

I also loved my Cavalier.  It took a head on collission at 60 mph and the
passenger compartment stayed intact.  No one in our car was injured, everybody
in the other car was.  WE wore our seat belts, tehy did not.  (we were both
going about 30 mph on a very slippery road.)  They were driving a ford.

response 22 of 120:

Nov 17 18:34 UTC 2003

My brother works for Saturn.  A half year ago, when I asked him, he 
advised me to avoid the Ion.  I plan to talk to him and see if he 
thinks they're better now, but if he's not willing to heartily 
recommend it, I don't want one.

Discounts available to me for the Chevy Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire, 
the two GM cars I am considering:

-- $4000 discount for the model (or they have these basic car specials
   which amounts to about the same discount)
-- about $2000 employee/family discount
-- 50% of the down payment up to $2000 (up to $1000 discount).  This is
   also for employees and family.

response 24 of 120:

Nov 17 18:55 UTC 2003

No one has mentioned the consideration of whether a car meets one's
desires for functionality for one's own uses. Mine have been a station
wagon (not SUV) with 4- or All- wheel drive, and a manual transmission,
at the lowest cost. That combination pretty much limited me to a Subaru. 

response 26 of 120:

Nov 17 19:40 UTC 2003

I have a Honda Civic I'm selling, incidentally, but I imagine you won't want
it because it has airbags.