|
Grex > Coop > #284: Grex Town Hall -- How do we move forward? - Fall, 2010 |  |
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 334 responses total. |
kentn
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response 294 of 334:
| 
Dec 13 23:13 UTC 2010 |
Yup, svn up works on my end. So, we're good to go, I think.
|
veek
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response 295 of 334:
|
Dec 15 14:43 UTC 2010 |
I was wondering, what was the reason for 'validate' in the sense that..
when Grex was hit by Chad, what used to happen.. the box would hang
with cpu at 98%, then someone had to go to reset the box? or call
provide to have it rest?? So what's wrong with that..?? Provide didn't
want to rest the box?? Or did the File-system conk-out after the
reset?? What was the actual task that was sucking up staff time and
causing so much inconvenience.. could someone clarify..
I took a look at the FS:
/dev/wd0a 1008M 115M 843M 12% /
/dev/wd0d 492M 9.6M 458M 2% /suid
/dev/wd0f 31.5G 15.7G 14.3G 52% /usr
/dev/wd0g 39.4G 13.2G 24.2G 35% /var
/dev/wd0j 9.8G 5.5G 3.9G 58% /a
/dev/wd0k 9.8G 2.8G 6.6G 30% /c
/dev/wd0m 15.7G 5.8M 15.0G 0% /tmp
/dev/wd0o 19.7G 845M 17.9G 4% /cyberspace
/dev/nnpfs0 10.6G 0B 10.6G 0% /afs
/dev/wd0a is what is critical to getting the box to boot right?? It's
the rootFS so if the box is not shutdown cleanly it gets corrupted and
fsck will bitch. It's also the smallest FS at 115MB on a 1GB partition.
IF disk corruption and having to run to provide was the problem, why
not install 2 root filesystems (mirror/duplicate - using dump/dd, /dev/
wd0a). Obviously you can only boot off one rootFS! But, lets say we
bootup from wd0a because that's the default. Once Grex is running,
point the bootloader to /dev/wd0b (our backup rootFS). Now chad comes
along and crashes the box. You call provide, tell them reset please.
They reset, and BECAUSE you've changed the boot order when Grex was
running, it will load via the secondFS and come online.
Presto! someone remote logsin, run fsck on the broken partition and you
are up and running!! (it works on linux, and i could try downloading
OBSD.. and checking.. but, is that the problem?)
----------------
Or, switch to using a journal?? Right now we are using OBSD's Fast file
system..
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/geom-gjournal.html (but that would
take time me thinks since we are on OpenBSD right now)
|
veek
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response 296 of 334:
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Dec 15 14:44 UTC 2010 |
also if i upload patches, could someone patch?? Or do I have to wait
till cross gets back.. 1 month he said.. worst case scenario..
|
jgelinas
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response 297 of 334:
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Dec 15 15:16 UTC 2010 |
I don't remember the details of what the vandals were doing, but the
result was several days of downtime. We've some pretty capable
sysadmins around here, and they could not find a way to keep the box or
get it back up quickly, as motivated as they were to find a solution.
If something as simple as you've suggested would have worked, it would
have been implemented.
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veek
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response 298 of 334:
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Dec 15 16:09 UTC 2010 |
I've uploaded: ~veek/latest.diff could someone patch? Just to remind
you, you should also know how to rollback :p
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cross
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response 299 of 334:
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Dec 15 16:47 UTC 2010 |
resp:295 What's the relative benefit of running a system that a user can
take down at will while other users are using it but that can be rebooted
easily, versus what we have now?
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cross
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response 300 of 334:
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Dec 15 16:56 UTC 2010 |
resp:298 It seems that much has already been applied. Did you sync your
workspace after the last push before uploading this?
|
tsty
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response 301 of 334:
|
Dec 15 17:24 UTC 2010 |
about rt here is a nearly typcial pos:
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date Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:59 AM
subject [grex.org #13747]
обратная
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hide details 10:59 AM (1 hour ago)
Wed Dec 15 10:59:35 2010: Request 13747 was acted upon.
Transaction: Ticket created by support@topshkola.ru
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Owner: Nobody
Requestors: support@topshkola.ru
Status: new
Ticket <URL: https://www.grex.org/helpdesk/Ticket/Display.html?id=13747 >
Пожалуйста,
не высылайте
сообщения на
этот адрес --
они
автоматичес&
#1082;и удаляются.
Если вы
хотите
задать
вопрос или
высказать
свое мнение,
воспользуйт&
#1077;сь формой на
странице
"обратная
связь"
(ссылка в
правом
нижнем углу
на всех
страницах
сайта)
С уважением,
служба
поддержки
TopShkola.ru
============================
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Minimalist Manager via RT
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from Minimalist Manager via RT <help@grex.org>
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date Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 11:50 PM
subject [grex.org #10039] ...........?
mailed-by grex.org
hide details Apr 13
Tue Apr 13 23:50:18 2010: Request 10039 was acted upon.
Transaction: Ticket created by minimalist@highload.net.ru
Queue: help
Subject: ...........?
Owner: Nobody
Requestors: minimalist@highload.net.ru
Status: new
Ticket <URL: https://www.grex.org/helpdesk/Ticket/Display.html?id=10039 >
......:
.. (info@grex.org) .. ......... .. ... .........
....... ........:
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--
Sincerely, the Minimalist
minimalist my rosy red ....
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kentn
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response 302 of 334:
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Dec 15 17:31 UTC 2010 |
That was not necessary to make the point, TS.
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tsty
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response 303 of 334:
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Dec 15 17:31 UTC 2010 |
i went bac to rt just to see stuff ... some chagnes seem to be impelmaented.
more needed.
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veek
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response 304 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:01 UTC 2010 |
TS!! grrr! (and re the mail, it's not necessary that I do the duplicate
FS thingy - anyone could)
resp:299 ah! okay:
1. xyz hoses Grex - right now we got to go to provide because FFS
doesn't journal. That's one task saved given that xyz could lie and
sneak past validation in any case. Validation doesn't solve the lying
problem.. (unless we insist on paypal for everyone!) I mean, nothing
stops Chad from getting in right now! He just chooses not to!
2. Sure he could take the box down again and again, but now we can
start banning his ips! and temporarily lock tor out! In fact we could
nuke his whole subnet temporarily (1 month ban). With minimal downtime,
he's not getting any reward in terms of squealing users and sysadmins
having to run to provide.net.
3. It's easy to implement right? We need to resize a partition and
extract 1Gb and then just dump to it. we could use diffs for stuff like
password/shadow/group syncing. Or put in another hard disk..
4. Validation can now be temporary. When under attack, Grex just locks
things up without going to provide. Then we leisurely repair the mainFS
and unlock(remove validate) at leisure..
---
I feel it's worth a shot, but like i said, if ppl don't like it.. (i'm
not overly optimistic about our chances without validation.. i always
thought validation would be a temporary thing..)
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veek
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response 305 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:02 UTC 2010 |
+another suggestion (which i don't like), could we use fsck with the YES
(-y) option?? and md5sum to restore files that are corrupted??
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cross
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response 306 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:13 UTC 2010 |
We tried all that, veek. Banning IP addresses, tor end points,
etc. None of it worked.
Constantly rebooting the box just for people like Chad doesn't buy
us much, and hurt us a lot (users who were doing things got denied
the service of Grex; that's not cool). The present system raises
the bar high enough that the Chads of the world are much less
interested in bothering to attack Grex.
I really don't see why you keep bringing this up. "Reboot when
someone crashes us" is just not an acceptable strategy. Extra
partitions don't really help with that. And seriously, WHY do
you want to make this change? What's the point? Just to get rid
of validation and resh?
resp:301 So, since RT works by people sending email to it, it can
get spam. What's your point, exactly?
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veek
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response 307 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:28 UTC 2010 |
resp:306 *sigh* because perma validation will kill us.. at least that's
what I believe. Thing is, on IRC and places like that.. it's hard enough
getting ppl to move to a Unix shell and unless they can quickly log on.
anyway, i won't bring this up again (ever).
I checked out to 1019 and svn diff'd, should work now.
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cross
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response 308 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:29 UTC 2010 |
resp:307 I've seen no evidence that validation will kill us, and lots of
evidence that it won't. Like, the fact that almost all other similar services
do some form of validation.
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cross
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response 309 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:36 UTC 2010 |
resp:307 Same errors. Do you have the <div id="pagefooter"> stuff in your
client?
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veek
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response 310 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:45 UTC 2010 |
yeah! pagefooter is okay right??? i thought it was the revision tags..
but yeah rev tags are there as well in some of those docs.. let me
check.. i got to sleep, tomorrow!
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veek
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response 311 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:47 UTC 2010 |
resp:308 yeah, but SDF is already established with a decent user-base..
oh well, try and see.. and you have smj constantly adding new features..
but really it's the regulars in com(party) that keep that place running
(chicks).
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cross
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response 312 of 334:
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Dec 15 18:56 UTC 2010 |
resp:311 We add a lot of new features, too; just that no one pays much
attention and we don't advertise them. And Grex used to have a
well-established, large userbase as well: we lost that over time through
neglect.
Really, we need to fix the advertising and neglect thing before the restricted
shell. And note that SDF has a restricted shell as well.
resp:310 Yeah, pagefooter should be there. I don't see the Id stuff in the
rejection chunks. I do see that it wants to change "pagefooter" back to
"footer", which is clearly wrong.
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veek
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response 313 of 334:
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Dec 15 19:14 UTC 2010 |
resp:312 yeah.. that's true.. Grex is way better than SDF (imo)! I like the
crowd on SDF but I dislike SDF itself.. i'd be pretty happy if they all
moved here and left smj where he is. Adverts is fixed! flyer is ready for
printing.. only the hacker.gif image may be copy-protected.. i just bummed
that from somewhere.. maybe i'll ask my younger sib to draw it..
hmm.. well i'll try and install svn-server and try to replicate stuff..
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kentn
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response 314 of 334:
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Dec 15 19:55 UTC 2010 |
I'm working on a web page that lists the software we have installed.
Unfortunately, I can't work on it right now (later, yes) and of course,
it'll be an on-going maintenance issue if we put in which version we
have, so I'm thinking it might be best to leave that out for now. I've
looked at a couple sites that list what we have and I didn't have time
look into what it takes to make an update (that is, it isn't always
obvious or easy to update some of those sites for our information, so
would probably call for an e-mail to the admin on those sites. And of
course, since year's Board is not in our web site, it's hard to prove I
have the right to change things.).
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kentn
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response 315 of 334:
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Dec 15 19:58 UTC 2010 |
s/since year's/since this year's/
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jgelinas
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response 316 of 334:
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Dec 15 20:29 UTC 2010 |
(I *really* miss command-line access.)
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kentn
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response 317 of 334:
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Dec 15 21:17 UTC 2010 |
What sort of commands are you missing on the web here?
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jgelinas
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response 318 of 334:
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Dec 15 21:32 UTC 2010 |
Updating text files, like the one that contains the history of board
membership.
And if I could use svn or the like, I would have command-line access to
grex, and so wouldn't need them.
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