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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 91 responses total. |
ball
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response 29 of 91:
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Oct 14 04:44 UTC 2006 |
It sounds as though Jim and I have somewhat similar driving
styles. I think 50 MPG is very unusual for a conventional
car with a petrol engine. I drive my car almost every day,
but it's hard to imagine that making so vast a difference in
fuel economy. My car has a 1.9 litre engine (tuned towards
'docile') with a manual gearbox.
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ball
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response 30 of 91:
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Oct 14 04:55 UTC 2006 |
Small children sit in huge child seats.
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keesan
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response 31 of 91:
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Oct 14 18:03 UTC 2006 |
Car seats are, I presume, designed to fit standard size cars.
Jim says the 40-50 mpg was outside of cities, he never drove over 55 mpg, he
did not brake going down hills, he stopped using the gas before intersections
and coasted into them, etc. We don't drive in the city, just once a year on
vacation. What mpg do the best new cars get nowadays?
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keesan
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response 32 of 91:
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Oct 14 18:09 UTC 2006 |
See http://www.fueleconomy.gov for lots of info about pollution,
efficiency, driving styles, etc. The best hybrid car of 2005 got 61 mpg city,
and the best SUV (hybrid) got 36 mpg. You need to download an entire list of
all the vehicles for 2006 to see specifics, I think (and use a javascript
browser - which maybe will let you look up specific models). How much extra
does a hybrid car cost? I bet it pays for itself in a few years.
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cyklone
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response 33 of 91:
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Oct 14 19:32 UTC 2006 |
I think the jury is still out, because (I don't believe) a retail price
has been set yet for replacement battery packs.
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ball
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response 34 of 91:
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Oct 15 02:29 UTC 2006 |
I understand that most non-trivial work on a hybrid has to
be done at a dealership, with expensive labour rates.
Hybrids are a red herring anyway I think, but perhaps they
will help debug technologies that will later prove useful in
electric, Hydrogen or fuel-cell cars.
I get about 32 MPG on the highway, mostly driving around 65
MPH (unless I'm running late for something).
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ball
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response 35 of 91:
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Oct 15 02:31 UTC 2006 |
People tell me that 32 MPG is "not bad at all".
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gull
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response 36 of 91:
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Oct 15 02:53 UTC 2006 |
Some minivans can get low- to mid-20s, which is not quite as good as a
mid-sized car but better than a full-size car. A full-size van would
put you down below 20 mpg, but it doesn't sound like you're talking
about a full-sized van anyway.
You might consider choosing a car that's a flexible-fuel vehicle (FFV),
since that would give you the option to run on E85 if it ever becomes
widely available.
For the type of vehicle you're talking about, you might consider buying
from a rental company. They sell off their cars after a year or two in
rental service. They're usually dealer-maintained and sometimes still
carry a warranty, so they can be a pretty good bet.
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ball
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response 37 of 91:
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Oct 15 04:31 UTC 2006 |
E85 is available at just about every filling station in this
area. Biodiesel less so, although if you know where to look
you can buy it. E85 apparently decreases fuel economy,
perhaps to the point where it ofsets its lower cost. It may
be a little less harmful to the environment though, perhaps.
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ball
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response 38 of 91:
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Oct 15 04:32 UTC 2006 |
I think I read somewhere that E85 has a much lower energy
return on energy invested (EREI) than BioDiesel too.
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rcurl
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response 39 of 91:
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Oct 15 07:41 UTC 2006 |
Making ethanol is inherently a more expensive operation per Kcal than making
biodiesel.
It has been estimated by engineering professionals that if we converted
*every* hectare of agricultural land to corn production for ethanol in
this country, it would amount to less than 10% of our current fuel
consumption. Of course then we wouldn't need fuel as we would all starve
to death.
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keesan
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response 40 of 91:
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Oct 15 15:10 UTC 2006 |
Getting 23 (minivan) instead of 32 (car) mpg, 100,000 miles, $3/gallon, is
a difference of about $3700 extra for the minivan. You could still buy a lot
of groceries for that. The difference between 50 (hybrid, assuming it does
less than the 61 mpg best) and 25 mpg (minivan) would be about $6000, which
should pay for a lot of repairs even by a dealer, on the hybrid car. And also
produce half as much pollution, which you claim to care about. A lot of
people claim to be anti-pollution and anti-global-warming, but don't care
enough to do anything about it personally.
Do hybrid cars have the same lifespan?
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ball
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response 41 of 91:
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Oct 15 15:40 UTC 2006 |
I wouldn't buy a vehicle that only got 23 MPG. US$ 6,000
goes a little way at the dealership, but not as far as I
would hope (probably even less far when you own a hybrid).
Lower emissions are a Good Thing, and may be reason enough
to pay the extra for a hybrid. If anyone knows the lifespan
of a hybrid, they're not telling. As was mentioned, the
replacement cost of the battery is a concern.
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keesan
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response 42 of 91:
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Oct 15 18:06 UTC 2006 |
What mpg would you expect a minivan to get? Battery costs are coming down
steadily and there are newer types under development. What do you expect to
go wrong with a hybrid but not with a minivan?
Do you have a place to get natural gas for cars?
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rcurl
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response 43 of 91:
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Oct 15 18:36 UTC 2006 |
You also have to consider the energy costs and environmental conseqences
of *making* and, in the end, recycling/trashing the vehicle. This is
called Life Cycle Analysis (http://www.gdrc.org/uem/lca/life-cycle.html).
It is, unfortunately, not done for most products.
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gull
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response 44 of 91:
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Oct 15 21:12 UTC 2006 |
Hybrids large enough to comfortably fit two car seats and some luggage
in are on the expensive side and don't get nearly the fuel economy the
small ones do. Also, think about the type of driving you'll be doing.
Hybrids don't have much, if any, fuel economy advantage in highway
driving. They're only helpful in stop-and-go, city driving. If you're
looking for a highway vehicle that gets good fuel economy, you might
consider a diesel. (But with the high cost of diesel fuel lately, that
may not be a net win over gasoline.) Hybrid reliability is also an
open question, so I don't know if I'd buy a used one. I've heard the
Honda Insight, in particular, has turned out to be a bit of a lemon.
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keesan
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response 45 of 91:
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Oct 15 22:48 UTC 2006 |
Diesel stinks and is much more polluting, esp. particulates.
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cyklone
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response 46 of 91:
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Oct 15 23:43 UTC 2006 |
Actually, I think diesels are much cleaner than they used to be. As I
understand it, the last remaining emissions issue is cold starts. I think
there was also one particular pollutant that was problematic, but I believe
it's been addressed.
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keesan
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response 47 of 91:
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Oct 16 01:04 UTC 2006 |
Do you know of any diesel engines that do not produce particulates? They may
have reduced the amount of sulfur and nitrogen oxides.
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cyklone
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response 48 of 91:
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Oct 16 03:21 UTC 2006 |
A low-sulfer diesel fuel is being rolled out this year. There will also be
diesels with particulate traps, and may even be a few on the road now.
Newer engine technology has taken care of the nitrogen oxides. According
to what I read in greencar journal, a clean diesel is as clean as today's
gas engine. The real question is whether diesels can meet some of the
newer standards being phased in in places like California.
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ball
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response 49 of 91:
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Oct 16 06:24 UTC 2006 |
Re #42: If I couldn't get something at least /approaching/ 8
l/100km (30 MPG) on the highway, I wouldn't buy it. I'm
not ready to buy a hybrid because they're massively more
complex than a conventional vehicle, complexity is the
enemy of reliability and hybrids come with vendor lock-in
as standard. I've not seen any natural gas powered cars,
or anywhere I could buy fuel for one.
Re #43: It would be nice if potential buyers got to see
meaningful life-cycle numbers for each vehicle. That said,
what proportion of Americans actually look at them? Some
don't even look at the fuel economy numbers, although
perhaps more are since the prices started to rise a
little.
Re #44: Good point. My own preference (of currently-
available road vehicles would probably be for Diesel in
any case, but Mrs. Ball has her own objections and she
would be the primary driver of the new vehicle.
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ball
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response 50 of 91:
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Oct 16 06:26 UTC 2006 |
)
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gull
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response 51 of 91:
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Oct 17 00:37 UTC 2006 |
Re resp:47: The very newest diesel vehicles, the ones for the 2007
model year, have particulate filters. If I remember right, they work
on an electrostatic principle, and include an operating phase where the
filter plates are heated to a very high temperature to incinerate the
accumulated particles. This is combined with improved timing and fuel
delivery that eliminate a lot of the particles to begin with. These
vehicles also have systems that greatly reduce NOx emissions. Some of
this technology was already available in Europe, but has only become
practical in the U.S. with the introduction of ultra-low-sulfur diesel
fuel.
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keesan
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response 52 of 91:
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Oct 17 00:52 UTC 2006 |
Do the newer diesel engines still stink?
Are there minivans that get 30 mpg?
|
ball
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response 53 of 91:
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Oct 24 21:56 UTC 2006 |
Judging by the rate at which towing bills are piling up, I
expect to buy Ballmobile II within the next month, if not
the next week.
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