response 283 of 378:

Mar 10 16:24 UTC 2006

I managed to view Rane's URL with links (needed javascript).
I think it is saying that if you weight 65-75% of average weight you are 5%
more likely to die within a given period.  If you weigh 75-95% of average you
are 93% as likely to die, implying that average people weigh more than is
health for them (in this group of people anyway, in the US).  If you weight
145-155% of average (50% above average, average being somewhat heavier than
is health) you are 211% as likely to die (about twice as many people will die
if they should have weighed 150 lb to be average and they weight 225 lb, or
75 lb overweight).  If you should have weighed 150 lb but weigh 155-165% of
that, call it 160%, and therefore weigh 240 instead (90 lb overweight), you
are more than twice as likely to die as someone average.  This was for men
ages 15-39.  This was if they kept track of people for only 5 years.

If they followed them up for 15-22 years, people who were 10% or so above the
average weight, and had 10% higher chance of dying within 5 years, had 69%
higher chance of dying within 15-22 years, meaning that if the average weight
for you is 150 lbs, a healthier weight (80%) would be 120 lb (that is probably
me at 5'5"), and if I weighed 10% extra (165 lb) I would be 69% more likely
to die than someone who weighed 150 lb, within 15-20 years, and somewhat less
likely if I weighed 120 lb (and were a man currently aged 15-29, of course).

I think this implies that moderate overweight causes a moderate increase in
chance of dying young (which is low to start with so even doubling does not
make much difference), but as you get into your fifties and sixties, the
cumulative effects of being even 10% above average (which is already
overweight) cause people to die with twice the frequency of people who are
not overweight.  This can be from increased frequency of cancer due to poor
diet (colon cancer, breast cancer), from circulatory problems, diabetes. 
Even if you don't die, you are more likely to have joint problems (knee
replacements, bad back), sleep apnea due to fat interfering with air intake.

I agree with slynne that people should not ridicule someone with a health
problem, and that it is sometimes genetic/metabolic, and losing weight is not
easy, but I don't agree that people should give up trying.  Counting calories
is not the best way of dieting, unless it serves to educate people about which
types of food are high in calories and should mostly be avoided.   A friend
losing weight successfully with the most recent Weight Watchers' diet says
there are categories of food she can eat in unlimited amounts, such as whole
grains (despite having carbohydrates they digest slowly and make you feel
full) as long as she does not eat until it hurts.  Most vegetables and fruits
are okay.  Things made of flour, even whole-wheat, are not, they digest too
quickly.  Liquids should be non-caloric (drink water).  A neighbor is losing
weight because his doctor told him to stop drinking alcohol. 

Overweight people as a category probably get less exercise, which can skew
the statistics.  I agree that fat people who exercise are in some ways
healthier than lazy thin people who don't exercise.  

Quitting smoking has to be much more effective in improving health than any
kind of diet.  Good luck keeping it up, lynne.  

response 285 of 378:

Mar 10 16:28 UTC 2006

note that this site says the BMI numbers categorize as follows:

Underweight Below 18.5 
Normal 18.5 - 24.9  
Overweight 25.0 - 29.9 
Obesity 30.0 and Above 
 

response 287 of 378:

Mar 10 17:28 UTC 2006

re #274
I make pancakes each Saturday for the family.  Its 10-grain pancake mix.

response 289 of 378:

Mar 10 18:40 UTC 2006

hey lynne, you quit smoking?  

response 291 of 378:

Mar 10 18:48 UTC 2006

what!

everything?!

response 293 of 378:

Mar 10 18:56 UTC 2006

Lynne, how much exercise did people get in that study and are you getting as
much as they did?  I don't consider myself to get much exercise, and on a
typical day I would walk or bike a few miles just to get places.  Another
grexer lost weight by using a bike for transportation (then got a job driving
a taxi and bought a car on top of that).  

Exercise also strengthens muscles needed to prevent back injuries, but
overweight is still hard on your joints.

I should go climb 8 flights of stairs (the same one 8 times).  I was going
to do one more every day but got bored after three days.  

response 295 of 378:

Mar 10 19:35 UTC 2006

I also wanted to mention that their is a correlation between owning a 
dog and being healthy. Dog owners tend to be healthier than non dog 
owners and I wonder how much of that is that dog owners get more 
exercise than non dog owners. I know I get a lot more exercise owning a 
dog because when I dont take them for regular walks, they start to act 
all crazy. It is a strong motivation to get out of the house and get 
moving. 

response 297 of 378:

Mar 10 19:47 UTC 2006

i have a friend d!

response 299 of 378:

Mar 10 20:05 UTC 2006

I profoundly doubt that anybody could make a successful long-term exercise
program out of an activity they hate.  I guess maybe some people would
have sufficient self-discipline and masochism but I don't think it would
be sustainable.

I think the vital elements of any program is that:
1. You can do it, meaning that it's within your abilities and the time
   it takes is time that you have
2. You want to do it; you enjoy it enough to keep at it consistently and
   set new goals to motivate yourself
3. You can increase its intensity as your fitness increases

I enjoy walking, but it doesn't work well for me because it doesn't fit
criteria 1 and 3.  Walking enough to provide a significant health
benefit takes more time than I usually have available to dedicate to it,
and once I reach a decent level of fitness then the only way to make
walking challenging is to put on a 40-pound backpack and walk up a
mountain.  That can be fun but I can't do it every day before (or after)
work.

response 301 of 378:

Mar 10 20:45 UTC 2006

re #277
 resp:266 Ok, what are the risks? Like in a group of a 100 people who are
 morbidly obese, how many of them will be dead by the time they are say
 70 compared to a similar group of people of what you consider to be a
 healthy weight. This seems to be a difficult statistic to find but it
 seems kind of essential to me. I appreciate your good intentions though.

PREMATURE DEATH
An estimated 300,000 deaths per year may be attributable to obesity. 
The risk of death rises with increasing weight. 
Even moderate weight excess (10 to 20 pounds for a person of average height)
increases the risk of death, particularly among adults aged 30 to 64 years.

Individuals who are obese (BMI > 30)* have a 50 to 100% increased risk of
premature death from all causes, compared to individuals with a healthy
weight. 

HEART DISEASE
The incidence of heart disease (heart attack, congestive heart failure, sudden
cardiac death, angina or chest pain, and abnormal heart rhythm) is increased
in persons who are overweight or obese (BMI > 25).* 
High blood pressure is twice as common in adults who are obese than in those
who are at a healthy weight. 
Obesity is associated with elevated triglycerides (blood fat) and decreased
HDL cholesterol ("good cholesterol"). 

DIABETES
A weight gain of 11 to 18 pounds increases a person's risk of developing type
2 diabetes to twice that of individuals who have not gained weight. 
Over 80% of people with diabetes are overweight or obese. 

CANCER
Overweight and obesity are associated with an increased risk for some types
of cancer including endometrial (cancer of the lining of the uterus), colon,
gall bladder, prostate, kidney, and postmenopausal breast cancer. 
Women gaining more than 20 pounds from age 18 to midlife double their risk
of postmenopausal breast cancer, compared to women whose weight remains
stable. 

BREATHING PROBLEMS
Sleep apnea (interrupted breathing while sleeping) is more common in obese
persons. 
Obesity is associated with a higher prevalence of asthma. 

ARTHRITIS
For every 2-pound increase in weight, the risk of developing arthritis is
increased by 9 to 13%. 
Symptoms of arthritis can improve with weight loss. 

REPRODUCTIVE COMPLICATIONS
Complications of pregnancy 
Obesity during pregnancy is associated with increased risk of death in both
the baby and the mother and increases the risk of maternal high blood pressure
by 10 times. 
In addition to many other complications, women who are obese during pregnancy
are more likely to have gestational diabetes and problems with labor and
delivery. 
Infants born to women who are obese during pregnancy are more likely to be
high birthweight and, therefore, may face a higher rate of Cesarean section
delivery and low blood sugar (which can be associated with brain damage and
seizures). 
Obesity during pregnancy is associated with an increased risk of birth
defects, particularly neural tube defects, such as spina bifida. 
Obesity in premenopausal women is associated with irregular menstrual cycles
and infertility. 

ADDITIONAL HEALTH CONSEQUENCES
Overweight and obesity are associated with increased risks of gall bladder
disease, incontinence, increased surgical risk, and depression. 
Obesity can affect the quality of life through limited mobility and decreased
physical endurance as well as through social, academic, and job
discrimination. 

CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS
Risk factors for heart disease, such as high cholesterol and high blood
pressure, occur with increased frequency in overweight children and
adolescents compared to those with a healthy weight. 
Type 2 diabetes, previously considered an adult disease, has increased
dramatically in children and adolescents. Overweight and obesity are closely
linked to type 2 diabetes. 
Overweight adolescents have a 70% chance of becoming overweight or obese
adults. This increases to 80% if one or more parent is overweight or obese.

The most immediate consequence of overweight, as perceived by children
themselves, is social discrimination. 

BENEFITS OF WEIGHT LOSS
Weight loss, as modest as 5 to 15% of total body weight in a person who is
overweight or obese, reduces the risk factors for some diseases, particularly
heart disease. 
Weight loss can result in lower blood pressure, lower blood sugar, and
improved cholesterol levels. 
A person with a Body Mass Index (BMI) above the healthy weight range* may
benefit from weight loss, especially if he or she has other health risk
factors, such as high blood pressure, high cholesterol, smoking, diabetes,
a sedentary lifestyle, and a personal and/or family history of heart disease.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/obesity/calltoaction/fact_consequences
.htm

response 303 of 378:

Mar 10 21:33 UTC 2006

That is my point. The statistics are seldom presented in a meaningful 
way. For example:

"Individuals who are obese (BMI > 30)* have a 50 to 100% increased risk 
of premature death from all causes, compared to individuals with a 
healthy weight." <---- this is a meaningless statistic unless one knows 
what the risk of premature death from all causes is. I mean, if 10 
people out of a 1000 die prematurely and the obesity risk doubles that 
so 20 out of 1000 die prematurely...well that is a very different thing 
than if the original risk of dying prematurely is 495/1000. See what I 
mean? 

Here is what I think. I think it is possible that even with a doubled 
or even tripled risk of premature death, fat people are MORE likely not 
to die prematurely than they are to die prematurely. They just are more 
likely to die prematurely than someone who isnt obese. 

 

response 305 of 378:

Mar 11 00:50 UTC 2006

If I loose weight and my blood pressure and blood sugar levels drop along with
it, I am in serious trouble.  I have low blood sugar and low blood pressure.
When I was in the hospital for my surgeries in late 2003 and mid 2004 I had
real problems with the nurses and blood pressure.  Since I am overweight they
would always pump the machine up into the 200 range.  My normal pressure runs
in the neighborhood of 105/60. 

Right after STeve's stroke in 2001, our Dr felt that we both fit the profile
of becoming diabetic and put us on a preventative medication without checking
my blood sugar levels.  I didn't think much about it since it is in my
records.  Within a couple of days I was shaky, nauseated, couldn't
concentrate, etc.  I realized what was going on and quit taking them, sent
email to him telling him so and why.  He agreed.

Just because you are overweight doesn't mean that you get the all or any of
the problems associated with it.  Unfortunately, even the medical profession
tends to have the preconceived negatives of being overweight.  The only real
problem I have that can be contributed to my being overweight is the arthritis
in my knees, and only a portion of it.  They were going bad even before I put
on the weight, may actually be part of the reason why I put it on in the first
place.  My knees have been a problem since my early teens, I was very active
in my youth and damaged them often.  The pain in the knees slowed me down as
exercise hurt.  Walking started to hurt before I was 25, I gave up biking
because of it.  I continued to walk until about the time of the June 2004
surgery.  By that point they hurt all the time, moving or not.  Exercise
becomes the last thing you want to do when every step, every movement is
agony.  Even turning over in bed can cause me to wake up crying with the pain.
It then becomes an evil cycle -- no exercise - weight gain, weight gain - more
pain - less exercise.  I seem to have curtailed the gain, now to work on the
loss.  I did do physical therapy in a heated pool a couple of times a week.
It helped with the stiffness and some weight loss, but not the pain. 
Unfortunately, with the semester change my free hours no longer matched the
pool's open hours.  A normal pool doesn't work, cold water causes the muscles
to tighten rather than relax.  The therapy pool is kept at 90 degress, most
people won't tolerate that kind of temps in a pool.