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Grex > Coop7 > #106: Retiring the ID of someone who has died | |
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| 25 new of 326 responses total. |
kerouac
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response 275 of 326:
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Nov 15 00:09 UTC 1995 |
And what if one friend requests a deceased Id be reserved, and FIVE
nonfriends users specifically request, because they hated the dead user,
that that ID *not* be reserved and be allowed to reap. Lets say
that each time a user dies, there has to be a board or membership
at large vote on whether to honor a request to reserve the id. That
at least takes the responsibility out of staff's hands and either way
its not their decision.
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popcorn
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response 276 of 326:
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Nov 15 07:11 UTC 1995 |
It seems to me that as long as somebody wants the login ID reserved for
someone who died, it's worth reserving, even if a bunch of people didn't
like the person who died.
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srw
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response 277 of 326:
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Nov 15 07:53 UTC 1995 |
And that's exactly what my very simple proposal permits.
All the rest is just silly fluff, imo.
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remmers
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response 278 of 326:
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Nov 15 14:06 UTC 1995 |
This response will be number 278 unless somebody slips in while
I'm entering it. That seems like a lot of interest, but perhaps
it's worth noting that although 35 id's have responded altogether,
three users who entered over 25 responses each account for over
a third of the responses (two of them have entered over 35
responses each!), and if you count the users who have entered
more than 10 responses each, that accounts for 169 of the 278
responses.
I'm not sure what this analysis proves, but it indicates to
me that this issue has been "pumped up" more than a little bit
by a few people who feel strongly about it one way or the other.
I'm skeptical that most users care what's decided on this. I'm
not sure I do either, there are more important things in life to
worry about, but I lean to the side of not reserving logins in
perpetuity and not getting the staff involved in implementing
yet another policy on a system that has always prided itself on
being a "system with few rules."
I do think there's been some underhanded manipulation here,
which is another thing that puts a sour spin on the issue for me.
I don't think that the mlady/wisdom id that started this is a
newuser at all, but rather an olduser attempting to fabricate
evidence in support of certain positions by *posing* as a newuser.
I have to wonder how much other people's views on this have been
the result of taking his or her characterization of users'
response to the "mlady" id at face value. I'm not willing to
take it at face value.
Though I must say that if I'm right about mlady/wisdom's
pseudo-hood, the technique has proven effective, at least in the
short run.
<remmers grumbles>
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rcurl
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response 279 of 326:
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Nov 15 15:28 UTC 1995 |
Try Pepto-Bismol
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kerouac
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response 280 of 326:
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Nov 16 01:07 UTC 1995 |
no...mlady is real,Ive talkedto her on party. Remmers, what
substantiation doy ouh ave t oback thisclaim up? Since mlady is the
onlyuser ofrecent memory who hasdied, why wouldsomeone poseas her
to push this? I dont even know what otherissues debra(mlady) has
gotten involved in, in this conf. And ifthis was the case, why did
she get the "Wisdom"login and .forward her mail.
Remmers, I think that unless you canspecifically back thisup, and Imean
with whoyou think she really is, you owe her an apology. Thisis
only going to cause Debramore grief, and she probably thinks everyone here
is against her anyway.
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robh
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response 281 of 326:
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Nov 16 03:45 UTC 1995 |
kerouac, I'm not sure what you mean by "mlady is real, I've talked to
her in party", but this doesn't eliminate the possibility that
mlady/wisdom is/are a pseudo for some other current Grex user.
I don't believe this myself, but remmers can certainly have
his opinions. I can think of one new user who I talked to several
times in party before finding out it was a pseudo for another
user I'd talked to many times, both on-line and in real life.
Yes, it's easy to be fooled by a slight change in typing and
grammar.
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scg
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response 282 of 326:
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Nov 16 07:53 UTC 1995 |
I think there's some pretty strong evidence that the new mlady was not what
she claimed to be. The evidence for that can be seen by going back a bit more
than a month in this conference and reading some responses where the new mlady
and another user who has been very vocal on this issue seemed confused about
which one of them was which. I'm not willing to take the new mlady at face
value, but I wouldn't rule out her not being a pseudo either.
I seconded, and then voted for, srw's proposal at tonight's board meeting.
It passed. Yes, I probably was manipulated, but if it took a very light
policy that seemed to just codify what probably would have been the way such
things would be dealt with anyway to get this discussion over with, it was
worth it. I hope we can now return to our regularly scheduled Coop.
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remmers
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response 283 of 326:
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Nov 16 14:03 UTC 1995 |
Re #282: Don't count on it. There's nothing regular about Coop. :)
Mlady/wisdom is a two-issue login id--everything he or she has entered
in Picospan on Grex either has to do with "Agora is crap" or "logins of
deceased users should be retired". When someone creates a new id,
claims to be "new to all this" (from her original .plan), records no
verifiable info in their .plan, claims to be looking for interesting
discussion, gets plenty of help from our helper volunteers about what
other conferences there are and how to join them, but then joins only
the Coop and the Melvin conferences (in which she entered an item
blasting agora, and nothing else), I begin to smell a rat.
That's my opinion, it wouldn't stand up in court, but then neither
would "She's real because I talked to her in party." If I'm proven
wrong, of course I'll retract this and publicly apologize.
And if I'm wrong, I think Debra can handle what I'm saying okay.
To judge from the tone of her responses, she's one tough cookie, and
I'd think if you're a bartender you tend to develop a thick skin after
a while anyway.
As to the policy--yes, srw's proposal passed. I cast the only vote
against it. Not that I think that what the proposal authorizes staff to
do is bad, but I dislike the concept of policy-making as a response to
manipulative squeaky wheels, which is what I think this was. I hope it
doesn't become a habit on Grex.
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rcurl
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response 284 of 326:
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Nov 16 17:59 UTC 1995 |
I would have voted with you, John, if I could have attended.
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robh
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response 285 of 326:
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Nov 17 00:24 UTC 1995 |
<robh wonders whoch experienced user would want to log in
under a pseudo and run around posting "Agora is trash"
messages all over the place, and... um... never mind>
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kerouac
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response 286 of 326:
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Nov 17 02:58 UTC 1995 |
Im sick of this whole issue. whoever entered this can /kill it now
for all I care. IN the next 20 years there might be 3 or 4 grexxers
who die. It cant make that much of a difference what the policy is.
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sidhe
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response 287 of 326:
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Nov 17 04:11 UTC 1995 |
I applaud the vote, as it went, if for no other reason then
at least if this occurs again, we know what we'll do.
BNut I have to agree with kerouac, in that the issue is done with.
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carson
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response 288 of 326:
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Nov 17 15:28 UTC 1995 |
re #285. heh. :)
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rcurl
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response 289 of 326:
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Nov 17 18:41 UTC 1995 |
Before the item dies, I'd like to have it recorded that I do not wish
my login id to be reserved for any reason whatsoever in the event I
stop using it. I presume this will be honored, even without a specific
policy for the purpose. Anyone else having a similar wish should make
it known now, as the thought may not occur again.
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remmers
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response 290 of 326:
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Nov 17 19:43 UTC 1995 |
RE #285: I won't speculate on who mlady/wisdom might or might
not be.
Re #289: Steve Weiss will enter the exact wording of the policy
when he posts the minutes, but I believe what you're asking for
can't be guaranteed under the policy that the board passed.
It states that the login id of any deceased user shall be
reserved in perpetuity upon the request of any other user;
no exceptions.
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chelsea
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response 291 of 326:
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Nov 17 20:59 UTC 1995 |
Whether you want it to be or not. (This is a stitch, really.)
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rcurl
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response 292 of 326:
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Nov 17 23:13 UTC 1995 |
I did suggest an amendment to the Weiss policy, to enable #298, but
I guess no one saluted - or even raised it up the flagpole. I do think,
though, if Grex is going to officially honor the request of acquaintances
of a person that dies, it should honor the request of a living participant.
Or, at least designate an ombudsman to represent one after death, to
ensure their wishes are carried out.
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wisdom
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response 293 of 326:
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Nov 18 01:32 UTC 1995 |
Wow. I don'{{{{ow where in the hell to start.
How a{o{{ this- remmers, and whoever else it was who thinks I'm someone
else. WHo am I, then? I want to hear this, it should be good for a long, long
laugh. Why did I jump up and down abouut agora and user id's? Because
I was pissed off at both! Agora was a real pain in the ass for me,
{nd so was[y{the login problem. I didn't have much anything else I cared
about when I got here.
So, I'd like to apologise. that's not what I'm usually like-
that's me when I've been put through a beehive naked.
I got rid of the number 211 where I cussed out rcurl. He didn't
deserve it, even if I thought he was being a bonehead right then.
Gregc said something about not living up to my login. Point given,
bud. I still think a lot of you need to be more sensitive about some
things, but then look who's talking, eh?
I took a break to chill out, because I didn't need it, and,
now that I look at it, you didn't either.
Keroauc- thanks, bud, see you in party. Just don't tilt too
many windmills until I talk to you next, okay?
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janc
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response 294 of 326:
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Nov 18 05:11 UTC 1995 |
Rane's proposal to add a clause allowing the owner to make some kind of
statement of what they want done, was mentioned, but no supporters were
present. The discussion wavered mostly between (1) a minimal,
almost-not-a-policy-at-all policy, or (2) no policy.
I think if anyone really cares what happens to their login after they die,
then they can specify it in the same place all other instructions of that
nature go: in their last will and testament.
Personally, while I don't particularly care what happens with my ID, if
some friend or relation of mine felt it would bother them to see my login
in use after my death, then by all means let them ask it be reserved.
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srw
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response 295 of 326:
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Nov 18 07:03 UTC 1995 |
I will enter the meeting notes soon, I promise.
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remmers
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response 296 of 326:
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Nov 18 14:58 UTC 1995 |
Re #293: It's possible to come to the reasonable conclusion that
someone is a pseudo without knowing who the person behind it is.
I've been doing conferencing for over 10 years and could cite
many instances. So like I said earlier, I'm not going to speculate.
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wisdom
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response 297 of 326:
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Nov 18 22:32 UTC 1995 |
Something is cutting off lines, willy-nilly.. I'l have to read that later,
remmers..
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kerouac
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response 298 of 326:
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Nov 19 00:06 UTC 1995 |
#296...you are correct. Debra SEEMS real to me but if a newuser was
only going to read two confs, I'd never guess in a million years that
that person would choose coop and melvin as the two. I just dont see
that retiring a deceased'd id is SO important as to go to the trouble
of bringing an old id back just to raise hell. Also, the original
mlady never read that many confs, so outside those of us who used
party regularly a year ago not many would even have heard of her, much
less know that she died.
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mta
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response 299 of 326:
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Nov 19 00:22 UTC 1995 |
Re: 296 Yeah...I'm still wondering who mulberry was. (away back many years
ago on a system not all that far from in here in cyberspace.)
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