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| 25 new of 378 responses total. |
naftee
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response 272 of 378:
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Mar 9 23:37 UTC 2006 |
i started re-reading this item, and sort of whoa-ed at resp:8 .
>My grandma had to get both hips replaced.
she has two hips ?? both which had to be replaced due to arthritis ?
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tod
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response 273 of 378:
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Mar 9 23:39 UTC 2006 |
She had each hip replaced, yea. She's long since passed away.
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naftee
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response 274 of 378:
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Mar 10 00:10 UTC 2006 |
RIP :(
also, slynne ! you should stop eating pancakes.
substitute wild rice, or something.
i eat pancakes maybe once every THREE months ?!L if that ?
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richard
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response 275 of 378:
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Mar 10 00:52 UTC 2006 |
re #271 no rcurl, I didn't say anything about intentionally shortening
one's life. What I'm saying is that life isn't a race and there is no
finish line and, unless you believe in an afterlife which I do not,
there is no glory at the end. The only glory as I see it is simply
BEING in the game. If you can't win and you can't lose, and you are
going to die at the end anyway, you may as well just enjoy the
moments. Because those moments are all you have.
Slynne is choosing not to live her life dieting and pursuing some goal
or end that may never come, and won't matter in the long run even if
it does come. She is choosing to BE in her moment and enjoy being in
that moment in and of and for itself.
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rcurl
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response 276 of 378:
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Mar 10 02:30 UTC 2006 |
I still think it doesn't hurt to take moderate action to extend one's
enjoyment of the one life one has. I did, and it has been very good I did.
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slynne
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response 277 of 378:
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Mar 10 04:01 UTC 2006 |
resp:266 Ok, what are the risks? Like in a group of a 100 people who are
morbidly obese, how many of them will be dead by the time they are say
70 compared to a similar group of people of what you consider to be a
healthy weight. This seems to be a difficult statistic to find but it
seems kind of essential to me. I appreciate your good intentions though.
resp:275 Yes, we are all going to die in the end. Which reminds me of a
stat someone once threw at me (with nothing to back it up of course).
They said, "You are fat and fat people have a 50% greater chance of
dying" I couldnt help myself and I said, "So? I have a 150% chance of
dying?" which got a blank stare.
resp:276 I dont think it hurts to take moderate action to extend the
enjoyment of one's life. But I dont think that the kind of weight loss
diet that would be required for me to stay thin is moderate. I also have
not seen any evidence that it would have any effect on the length of my
life. In fact, considering how stressed out I get when I try to lose
weight and considering the known health risks of stress, it might
actually be healthier for me to stay fat.
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klg
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response 278 of 378:
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Mar 10 04:02 UTC 2006 |
(254: Quit calling RW and idiot. That's my job.)
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rcurl
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response 279 of 378:
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Mar 10 06:33 UTC 2006 |
"Obesity, when measured by relative weight (actual weight as a percentage of
average or desirable weight for a given height/age/sex group) has an adverse
effect on longevity. Convincing evidence of this has been evaluated in four
very large insurance studies (1903 to 1979), the Framingham 30-Year Followup
Study, the American Cancer Society Study, and other smaller cohort studies."
from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=hstat4.section.1107
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slynne
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response 280 of 378:
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Mar 10 12:13 UTC 2006 |
I dont understand the numbers on that page. What is a "mortality ratio"?
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jep
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response 281 of 378:
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Mar 10 14:28 UTC 2006 |
Lynne, I didn't think Brooke was belittling you. I think her
suggestion that you seem to me rationalizing your choices was natural
and not all that personal.
I don't mean to belittle you, either. I am just as fat as you are.
(I'm right about where I was the last time I saw you, when you gave me
that mattress several years ago.) I am doing nothing whatsoever about
it. I can excuse my choice in any number of ways.
I am perfectly happy with my weight -- and that's all that should
matter to anyone. If you're happy, then there's no need to apologize
to anyone or to explain yourself. That's my opinion. I can walk for a
day at the zoo, I can make it up the stairs at night, I can do all of
the things I need to do. I wish I were thinner about 1-2 times per
year because of something I can't do.
I've been following the discussion, and found it interesting.
One thing I thought you could have commented on, but didn't. I think
society hates fat *women*. I don't think there's nearly as much
disdain for fat men. I go swimming with my kid in the summer, and/or
in indoor pools. No one has ever made a comment to me about "look at
the tubby man". No one looks at me like it'd be better for everyone if
I'd go away.
Now, no teenaged girls swoon with lust as I walk by, either, as they
might if I were 80 pounds lighter and tan and muscular. But they don't
make vomiting sounds. They just stare at the teenaged boys. It is
doubtless better that way for everyone around.
Overweight women get much, *much* different treatment.
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slynne
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response 282 of 378:
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Mar 10 15:50 UTC 2006 |
resp:281 - jep, you are no where near as fat as I am. You are probably
40lbs overweight. I am more like 140lbs overweight.
It is true that fat women get judged more harshly than fat men and face
more fat prejudice. But that is based more on the notion that fat is
ugly and that women should be judged more on their looks than men. But
fat men *do* get judged on their weight even if it is to a lesser
degree. I guess I wasnt sure it would be a good idea to talk about
sexism *and* fat-hatred in the same item.
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keesan
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response 283 of 378:
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Mar 10 16:24 UTC 2006 |
I managed to view Rane's URL with links (needed javascript).
I think it is saying that if you weight 65-75% of average weight you are 5%
more likely to die within a given period. If you weigh 75-95% of average you
are 93% as likely to die, implying that average people weigh more than is
health for them (in this group of people anyway, in the US). If you weight
145-155% of average (50% above average, average being somewhat heavier than
is health) you are 211% as likely to die (about twice as many people will die
if they should have weighed 150 lb to be average and they weight 225 lb, or
75 lb overweight). If you should have weighed 150 lb but weigh 155-165% of
that, call it 160%, and therefore weigh 240 instead (90 lb overweight), you
are more than twice as likely to die as someone average. This was for men
ages 15-39. This was if they kept track of people for only 5 years.
If they followed them up for 15-22 years, people who were 10% or so above the
average weight, and had 10% higher chance of dying within 5 years, had 69%
higher chance of dying within 15-22 years, meaning that if the average weight
for you is 150 lbs, a healthier weight (80%) would be 120 lb (that is probably
me at 5'5"), and if I weighed 10% extra (165 lb) I would be 69% more likely
to die than someone who weighed 150 lb, within 15-20 years, and somewhat less
likely if I weighed 120 lb (and were a man currently aged 15-29, of course).
I think this implies that moderate overweight causes a moderate increase in
chance of dying young (which is low to start with so even doubling does not
make much difference), but as you get into your fifties and sixties, the
cumulative effects of being even 10% above average (which is already
overweight) cause people to die with twice the frequency of people who are
not overweight. This can be from increased frequency of cancer due to poor
diet (colon cancer, breast cancer), from circulatory problems, diabetes.
Even if you don't die, you are more likely to have joint problems (knee
replacements, bad back), sleep apnea due to fat interfering with air intake.
I agree with slynne that people should not ridicule someone with a health
problem, and that it is sometimes genetic/metabolic, and losing weight is not
easy, but I don't agree that people should give up trying. Counting calories
is not the best way of dieting, unless it serves to educate people about which
types of food are high in calories and should mostly be avoided. A friend
losing weight successfully with the most recent Weight Watchers' diet says
there are categories of food she can eat in unlimited amounts, such as whole
grains (despite having carbohydrates they digest slowly and make you feel
full) as long as she does not eat until it hurts. Most vegetables and fruits
are okay. Things made of flour, even whole-wheat, are not, they digest too
quickly. Liquids should be non-caloric (drink water). A neighbor is losing
weight because his doctor told him to stop drinking alcohol.
Overweight people as a category probably get less exercise, which can skew
the statistics. I agree that fat people who exercise are in some ways
healthier than lazy thin people who don't exercise.
Quitting smoking has to be much more effective in improving health than any
kind of diet. Good luck keeping it up, lynne.
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richard
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response 284 of 378:
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Mar 10 16:26 UTC 2006 |
Here's a link to a body mass index table, at the national heart, lung and
blood institute:
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/bmi_tbl.htm
What is your body mass index?
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richard
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response 285 of 378:
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Mar 10 16:28 UTC 2006 |
note that this site says the BMI numbers categorize as follows:
Underweight Below 18.5
Normal 18.5 - 24.9
Overweight 25.0 - 29.9
Obesity 30.0 and Above
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jadecat
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response 286 of 378:
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Mar 10 16:32 UTC 2006 |
One of my role-models for weight loss is an lj person. A little over a
year ago she decided that she was tired of being so obese. She didn't
like having to ask for a seat-belt extender for flights, or that getting
up from sitting on the ground was difficult. So she simply did something
about it. She began working out on a nordic track every day. Then once
the weather got warm she added biking to the nordic track workouts. Over
the summer she logged over 1000 miles on her bike.
With the work outs and only varying her diet slightly- not starving
herself only working with portion control and with more 'healthy' foods-
she managed to lose a substantial amount of weight. She's healthier and
much happier. Her post about how amazing it was to fly and NOT need the
seatbelt extender was wonderful to read.
She's not 'thin' by any means- but she's also not done yet and is still
working out and is still working on improving her diet. Her husband is
also on this journey- running instead of biking. His posts bitching
about how much he dislikes the workout - he doesn't ever get that
'runner's high'- but he likes the effects. So he keeps going.
Both of these two are entertaining writers to read anyway, but their
'get in shape' journey has been quite helpful and inspiring.
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tod
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response 287 of 378:
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Mar 10 17:28 UTC 2006 |
re #274
I make pancakes each Saturday for the family. Its 10-grain pancake mix.
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slynne
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response 288 of 378:
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Mar 10 18:07 UTC 2006 |
resp:283 Thanks for an explanation of the numbers. There has been some
more recent research that seems to contradict some of those numbers but
only for people at lower BMI than me. One study I will mention though
is one where they corrected for exercise (I dont have the cite handy
but hvae it in a book at home if anyone wants it). That study showed no
significant difference in death rates between obese people who
exercised and thin people who exercised. One possible theory to take
away from that is that a lack of exercise causes people to be fatter
than they otherwise would be and a sendentary lifestyle is unhealthy.
i.e. It isnt "obesity" that causes health problems but rather a lack of
exercise causes both health problems and obesity (in groups. there
probably is some about of natural size diversity in the human species.
Some people will still have high BMI's even if they exercise.)
That is basically the idea behind the "fitness at any size" movement. I
generally really like that movement because I think a lot of fat people
have been shamed so much by society that they are afraid to do things
like join a gym or be seen in a bathing suit. They think that people
will laugh at them for being fat and out of shape. I also like that
movement because a lot of people will decide to start to exercise
because they want to lose weight. But not everyone loses as much weight
as they would like and a lot of people get discouraged and quit because
exercise takes a lot of effort. But exercise is a HUGE benefit.
Probably even more than losing weight. The thing about the people Anne
mentions in resp:286 is even if that woman and her husband never
get "thin", they probably have gotten a lot healthier.
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happyboy
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response 289 of 378:
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Mar 10 18:40 UTC 2006 |
hey lynne, you quit smoking?
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slynne
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response 290 of 378:
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Mar 10 18:47 UTC 2006 |
resp:289 Yes. I had quit for a long time but started again last August.
But I quit again a week ago. I quit smoking *everything* too, not just
tobacco.
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scholar
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response 291 of 378:
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Mar 10 18:48 UTC 2006 |
what!
everything?!
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richard
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response 292 of 378:
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Mar 10 18:48 UTC 2006 |
It helps to have a job where you move around. If you are sitting in front
of a computer terminal in a stationary position all day at work, and then you
go home and sit in front of a computer all night, you aren't giving yourself
enough motion to burn calories. The rise in obesity in recent years and the
rise in the internet correlate.
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keesan
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response 293 of 378:
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Mar 10 18:56 UTC 2006 |
Lynne, how much exercise did people get in that study and are you getting as
much as they did? I don't consider myself to get much exercise, and on a
typical day I would walk or bike a few miles just to get places. Another
grexer lost weight by using a bike for transportation (then got a job driving
a taxi and bought a car on top of that).
Exercise also strengthens muscles needed to prevent back injuries, but
overweight is still hard on your joints.
I should go climb 8 flights of stairs (the same one 8 times). I was going
to do one more every day but got bored after three days.
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slynne
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response 294 of 378:
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Mar 10 19:32 UTC 2006 |
I dont recall the amount of exercise the people in that particular
study got. I have, however, read that people who even just walk for 1/2
hour three times a week are a LOT healthier than people who dont (and
that most Americans dont even get that much exercise). I get slightly
more than that and I definately need to increase the amount of exercise
I get. FWIW, when I was at my MOST active, I was around 50-60 lbs
thinner than I am right now which is still significantly overweight. At
that time, I rode by bike around 16 miles a day five days a week to a
job where I was physically active (waiting tables). I also would tend
to do things on the weekends like go on backpacking trips that involved
walking 15 miles a day with a heavy pack.
I dont think I would want to do quite that much exercise anymore. What
I will do as the weather gets warmer is start taking the dogs on longer
walks. Hopefully I will build up to an hour of walking a day which is
around 2-3 miles for me. I will also go swimming one or two times a
week for a couple of hours. That is the level of activity I had a few
years ago and I felt pretty good with it. I dont expect that amount of
activity will cause me to lose much weight but I do expect it will have
a positive impact on my health.
Just out of curiosity, how much exercise do other grexers get? I have a
feeling that a lot of us are probably beating the 30 minutes 3 times a
week standard often used in studies on exercise. I remember in my
health econ class that there was a correlation to the amount of
exercise a person got and the amount of education they had (which is
one possible explanation for why college educated people had better
health than people without college educations)
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slynne
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response 295 of 378:
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Mar 10 19:35 UTC 2006 |
I also wanted to mention that their is a correlation between owning a
dog and being healthy. Dog owners tend to be healthier than non dog
owners and I wonder how much of that is that dog owners get more
exercise than non dog owners. I know I get a lot more exercise owning a
dog because when I dont take them for regular walks, they start to act
all crazy. It is a strong motivation to get out of the house and get
moving.
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jadecat
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response 296 of 378:
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Mar 10 19:44 UTC 2006 |
My goal is 30 minutes on an Ellipse 3-4 times a week. I'm not quite
there. ;) Hubby and I are doing little things- like parking the car
further from store doors and walking that extra distance. We also live
on the third floor of an apartment building- so I consider doing laundry
(on the first floor) to be exercise. ;)
And yeah, the two people I wrote about may never be 'skinny' but they
will likely get to healthy and decently muscled.
resp:295 that makes sense. My friend D is quite slender- but she has a
german shepherd that she takes for an hour plus walk and a 20 minute
walk daily.
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