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Grex > Coop > #232: Taking root access from non participatants | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 126 responses total. |
mcnally
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response 26 of 126:
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Jul 2 23:51 UTC 2008 |
One of the things that some organizations can only learn the hard way
is that temperament and soundness of judgment are much more important
qualities in a system administrator than energy or technical brilliance.
Of the four qualities I've mentioned, however, the only one I'm willing
to concede to cdalten is energy. I agree with what I take to be the
general consensus -- that it would be a very poor idea to involve him in
the management of Grex.
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sholmes
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response 27 of 126:
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Jul 3 03:09 UTC 2008 |
And if in future we have another troll having issues with another staff
, do we keep on removing staff like that?
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lar
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response 28 of 126:
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Jul 3 05:54 UTC 2008 |
re#26
maybe one day you will consider coming back on staff.
re#27
Only if they act without any hint of accountability whatsoever
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jep
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response 29 of 126:
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Jul 3 13:00 UTC 2008 |
re resp:25: Thanks for posting, Chuck. It's unfortunate that you're the
cited target of a criminal, which is what cdalten is. Rest assured that
there are few who give him any credibility. You're doing nothing wrong.
Please hang in there.
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lar
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response 30 of 126:
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Jul 4 01:38 UTC 2008 |
"I am in no way the problem. Chad is."
True in a certain sense. However,for whatever reason chad has singled
you out and you seem to lack the skill needed to stop him. This has
resulted in newuser being turned off. I see that as a big problem for
grex.
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gelinas
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response 31 of 126:
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Jul 4 03:17 UTC 2008 |
Note that unicorn is not the only one lacking the skill: STeve disabled
newuser because _he_ had no other way of stopping the attacks, either.
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scholar
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response 32 of 126:
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Jul 4 03:31 UTC 2008 |
and certainly not because that was just the easier way to stop it.
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lar
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response 33 of 126:
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Jul 4 03:39 UTC 2008 |
Should have went with freebsd like cross suggested. m-net is
impervious to his attacks even with our old version
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lar
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response 34 of 126:
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Jul 4 04:41 UTC 2008 |
ie: cat < /***/***| grep "*" > /***/*** &
(modified because some bozo is likely to try it again, if you're in
the know you know what goes in place of the "*")
It's sad that any user who runs this 15 times can bring grex down for
a week. That's what happened a few months back when we were kept out
of the loop. mickeyd ran it 15 times and grex went down like naftee's
mom.
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keesan
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response 35 of 126:
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Jul 4 15:17 UTC 2008 |
Perhaps one of our vandals has the expertise to explain the fix?
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lar
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response 36 of 126:
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Jul 5 01:14 UTC 2008 |
The fix is to turn off newuser and keep the vandal from the handle.
Anyone who did this could still bring grex down at this point,although I
don't want to run it to prove the point.
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veek
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response 37 of 126:
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Jul 5 04:26 UTC 2008 |
Re #25 #27 #31 are bang on! Chuck you need to ignore Lar's rubbish.
Before you signed up, Chad was gnawing on my foot and n8's, and making
an ass of himself with tel floods and what not! Why are we wasting time
even replying to this rubbish?? Let's not mention Chad ever again in
serious discussion! He's like a black hole sucking up peoples time!!
I'm not happy that new-user is turned off but there are no other
practical alternatives besides hosting, and that won't solve abuse
issues! I'd suggest "helpers" with more power to kick idiots off the box
(what's wrong with n8 policing the box??), and I'd like to help (website
updates), but I'd also like to stay anonymous, at least from all but
treasurer (that would exlude cross, steve, remmers, etc)! *hehe* it
would also be fun to watch n8 kicking Chad out when he acts like an ass
*grin* the vast quantities of pleasure i would derive watching chad
froth and fume :)
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glenda
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response 38 of 126:
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Jul 5 04:43 UTC 2008 |
Larry,
I would like to know why you think that I should have my root access
removed. I would hate to think that you are shallow enough to think
that just because I am married to STeve...
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lar
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response 39 of 126:
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Jul 5 06:44 UTC 2008 |
re#37
"it
would also be fun to watch n8 kicking Chad out when he acts like an ass
*grin* the vast quantities of pleasure i would derive watching chad
froth and fume :)"
I bet you would,considering how he's made an idiot out of you in m-net
general. You lack the skills needed to be given the keys to the kingdom
although it would be fun to watch chad pwn you here on grex when you
tried to boot him.
re#38
It's not that at all. What do you need root access for? If you need it
and participate I don't have a problem with you keeping it. The problem
I have is someone marching in and making a decision that effects
everyone without any sort of accountability.
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glenda
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response 40 of 126:
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Jul 6 04:25 UTC 2008 |
Then why do you name me by name as needing to have my root access
pulled? You have no idea what I do or don't do as staff. I report to
the board and to the other staff members, not to you.
I find it insulting that you name me and STeve as needing our root
pulled, and Chuck's should be pulled because he doesn't log in. How do
YOU know who logs in and who doesn't. When you log in via the web
interface, it doesn't show up under a last command. Who died and made
you in charge of who should and shouldn't have root access?
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lar
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response 41 of 126:
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Jul 6 06:35 UTC 2008 |
I find it insulting that steve logs in and turns newuser off without any
accountability whatsoever. It's appalling that you would flame someone
who makes an issue about this. It seems like you're only offended at
someone suggesting that your root powers be removed. THAT"s when you get
your panties all in a bunch and decide to participate in the discussion.
While it is true that "last" doesn't record a login via the web
interface there are other logs that do.
"Who died and made
you in charge of who should and shouldn't have root access?"
What do YOU need root access for? What do you actually do with it? When
is the last time you found a system hole and plugged it? When is the
last time you stopped a vandal in his tracks? Even STeve wasn't able to
stop cdalten except by turning newuser off. And ALL you moan about is
someone DARING to suggest that the great and mighty monarchs of grex(
you and steve) give up root access. Steve sound lose root powers because
of his prima dona cowboy attitude concerning newuser. When everyone
asked why it was off he was too unconcerned to even defend the action.
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lar
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response 42 of 126:
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Jul 6 12:38 UTC 2008 |
As for naming you. I 'm sure you would resent steve/ being denied root
enough to give him the password so the move is a pre-emptive one for
security's sake. You don't need it anyway. Maybe you two want this box
on your front porch for the cats to sleep in as well?
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mary
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response 43 of 126:
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Jul 6 13:22 UTC 2008 |
I'm for giving lar root. TS too. Anyone else?
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nharmon
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response 44 of 126:
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Jul 6 14:01 UTC 2008 |
Why does everyone need root? Seems to me there should be one or two
"senior staffers" who have the root password (and write it down
somewhere secure), and then delegate authority on the system via
something like sudo.
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slynne
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response 45 of 126:
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Jul 6 14:17 UTC 2008 |
resp:43 Why not? I suspect that lar would quickly find out what it feels
like to get heaps of abuse thrown at him for volunteering his time and I
can only think of one or two people who could use such a lesson more
than he can. I don't know if his technical skills are up to the task but
assuming they are, he does log on here regularly enough to be an asset.
I don't have any reason to suspect that he would abuse such a staff
position.
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mary
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response 46 of 126:
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Jul 6 14:59 UTC 2008 |
I agree.
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tod
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response 47 of 126:
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Jul 6 16:37 UTC 2008 |
re #40
You have no idea what I do or don't do as staff.
We've kind of been having this discussion about staff accountability and
knowing what it is that staff does. Maybe you could outline for lar and some
others to give them an idea?
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glenda
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response 48 of 126:
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Jul 7 00:51 UTC 2008 |
The biggest and main reason I have root is because I am one of the
locals on the list with access to the machine for reboots. Sometimes it
requires more than just pushing the reset button.
And no, if steve wasn't to have the root password and I did, I would not
give it to him. We do not, and never have shared passwords. I have my
own account and password on his machine, he has the same on mine. We
may be married, but we are and always will be separate people. The only
time I have had his password was when I helped him to update all his
machines at work. He does a major test to make sure all the patches,
etc. have been applied to those machines a couple of times a year. He
then changes the admin password on them afterwards. If I had root and
he didn't and I needed his expertise to fix something, he would walk Me
through it. That is how we work together. If he has more knowledge in
an area, he walks me through it so that I learn how to do it on my own.
If I know more, I walk him through it so he learns how.
You also can't truly say that STeve turned off newuser without any
accountability whatsoever. You are not privy to the discussions in the
staff conference as you are not staff. It is true that he doesn't
actively participate in the different conferences, and that he doesn't
log on everyday. He has a lot of other obligations that have to come
first. He has been trying to come up with a solution to the problem
ever since he turned newuser off. He didn't just turn it off, say it
was a lost cause, and forget about it.
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mcnally
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response 49 of 126:
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Jul 7 01:28 UTC 2008 |
I'm trying to stay out of this fight, but I want to point out that
whatever discussion may have occurred in the staff conference is
irrelevant to the question of whether staff acted accountably.
I also don't think it's a fair argument tactic to rebut someone
else's claims by referring to information which practically nobody
is entitled to read. Glenda is probably right that nobody has any
idea what she and other staff members are doing to help the system.
But when the only record of what gets done in a non-public conference,
whose fault is that?
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tod
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response 50 of 126:
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Jul 7 02:27 UTC 2008 |
re #49
But when the only record of what gets done in a non-public conference,
whose fault is that?
I agree the accountability should be more transparent. I'm avoiding
blaming since I'm way out of the loop. I can't imagine that there are too
many national security secrets discussed, though. Therefore, a summary or
couple blips of what each staffer does/when would be nice. It'd make life
easier for troubleshooting major outages I'd assume.
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