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16 new of 41 responses total.
janc
response 26 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 15 00:27 UTC 1999

Well, I like and read Connie Willis.  I just don't think she is anything
like the only game in town - I'd like to see more writers recognized.  I
think part of the reason that she wins so many awards is that she writes
so many short stories - not that many short stories get published and
they don't get very much attention, so I think it is a smallish clique
of people who read them and vote on short story awards.

On the whole I agree that there is a shortage of writers to be
enthusiastic about.  People I'm at least mildly enthusiastic about
include Neal Stephenson, Pat Murphy, Sean Stewart, and Robert Sawyer. 
The last two may be pushing their luck - some of their recent work has
been less impressive.
mcnally
response 27 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 15 01:20 UTC 1999

  re #25:  thanks for the suggestion, perhaps I'll try those..

  re #26:  care to go into further detail about the writers you like --
  what sort of stuff they write, what would be a good starting point, etc..?
dbratman
response 28 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 00:00 UTC 1999

Luke: _All_ awards are nominated essentially by a small group of people, 
though not necessarily a clique (which implies a conscious, self-aware 
group).  I counted three years' worth of Hugo ballots, so I've seen this 
in action.  But fewer people nominate, or vote, for the Hugo short 
fiction awards than for Novel.  Nomination, by the way, is a more 
critical filtering process than the actual voting, because it selects 
from a larger field and because fewer people participate.
robh
response 29 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 17:14 UTC 1999

Indeed.  I remember the shock I felt a few years back when
the awards were announced and I realized that I had already
read the Hugo-winning short story!
krj
response 30 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 20 14:12 UTC 1999

janc in resp:26 ::  Yes, it's true that working actively in the 
shorter fiction lengths can run up your award totals.  See Harlan 
Ellison, who has never to my knowledge written a science fiction 
novel.
 
The Hugos represent the economic structure of the SF field at the 
time the awards categories were fixed: in the 1950s, the pulp 
magazines were dominant, and there were probably less than 50
full-length novels published each year -- I'm guessing, based on 
things I've read in old fanzines.
 
One might consider revising the awards categories to reflect the 
field in 1999:  Roll together the Novella and Novellette awards,
and then create some new categories for longer works.
Best Short Novel, Best Big Honking Novel, and Best Trilogy, perhaps?
otaking
response 31 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 20 19:22 UTC 1999

If I remember correctly, Harlan Ellison wrote a novel back in the 50s or 60s
called Doomsman. It's one of those books that he'll rip up if you ever ask
him to sign it.

I have a problem with presenting awards for Best Trilogy. How do we handle
a series whenone or more of the individual books had already won? Would these
series be disqualified?
mcnally
response 32 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 21 03:39 UTC 1999

  I'm not sure that Ken was literally suggesting a "best trilogy" award..

  I took it as a snide comment on a perpetual trend in the science-fiction
  world..
krj
response 33 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 21 08:26 UTC 1999

I'm semi-serious and semi-snide.
mcnally
response 34 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 21 22:25 UTC 1999

This response has been erased.

mcnally
response 35 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 21 22:26 UTC 1999

  aren't we all?
dbratman
response 36 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 22 17:55 UTC 1999

I used to run another award, the Mythopoeic Society Awards, whose rule 
is that only stand-alone novels are eligible by themselves; trilogies 
(or whatever) have to wait until the entire trilogy is out.  This policy 
wouldn't work for the Hugos, since it requires an administrator to split 
the hairs, which would generate too much carping in the Hugo biz.  
Generally, when judging the eligibility of a book I hadn't read, I went 
by presentation: if it had a summary of its predecessor, it probably 
didn't stand alone, and if the t.p. had something like "Vol. 5 of the 
Celts In Space Trilogy", then it certainly didn't.  But many books which 
don't stand alone are published with no indication of that fact.

If I were revamping the Hugos, which I'm not (especially because it's 
impossible to get anything sensible through the Worldcon Business 
Meeting), I'd collapse the 4 fiction categories into either 2 (Novel and 
Short Fiction) or 3 (Long Novel, Short Novel/Novella, Novelette/Short 
Story, though obviously not with those names), replace Professional 
Artist with Original Artwork, and split Dramatic Presentation into 
Series and Stand-alone.
otaking
response 37 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 22 20:39 UTC 1999

<MIke quickly digresses> I liked the comment on "Vol. 5 of the Celts in Space
TRILOGY" because of the absurd ideas that spring to mind from the title. It
also makes me think of _Mostly_Harmless_, the 5th book in the Hitchhiker's
trilogy.

<digression=off>

I think narrowing down the fiction categories makes sense. Not too many people
think of the distinctions between a short novel, novella and novelette.
Creating a Short Fiction category makes more sense.

I also like the idea of splitting Dramatic Presentation into Series and
Stand-Alone. That would prevent episodes of the same series (like B5) from
competing with each other. Plus,you wouldn't have to examine an episode out
of context and rate it as a stand-alone.
mcnally
response 38 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 22 22:22 UTC 1999

  IIRC, "Mostly Harmless" had a blurb on the cover proclaiming it something
  like "The Fifth Book in the Increasingly Inaccurately-Named Hitchhiker's
  Guide Trilogy"

  Do books from the middle of series ever seriously contend for the Hugo?
  Most of the winners I can remember either a) stood apart, or b) sparked
  a series later but weren't clearly "series books" at the time they won..
dbratman
response 39 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 27 22:19 UTC 1999

Both the first and second books of Orson Scott Card's (hideously awful, 
wretched, and nauseating -- but I digress) Ender Wiggin saga won 
Hugos.  And I think that some of Lois McMaster Bujold's Hugo-winning 
novels were from the middle of a series (I haven't read any).  The 
second and third, but not the first, books of Kim Stanley Robinson's 
Mars trilogy won Hugos.
mcnally
response 40 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 28 18:58 UTC 1999

  Oh good, I'm not the only one who thought that the "Ender" books were
  more than a little gagging..
mneme
response 41 of 41: Mark Unseen   Sep 29 16:22 UTC 1999

Hi David, long time no talk...

Bujold's books (which, btw, were quite good, but didn't deserve three hugos)
were from a series, though one was basically an outlier.  None were of the
level of binding that would have necessitated waiting for them all to be
out before voting on them; all the books have a single plot that begins at
the beginning, and ends (mostly) at the end.
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