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Grex > Coop7 > #106: Retiring the ID of someone who has died | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 326 responses total. |
sidhe
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response 250 of 326:
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Nov 2 15:53 UTC 1995 |
Pardon me, rane, but there is a world of difference between
donating willingly and freely to the memory of a loved one, and being
forced to by the spectre of possible "re-animation" of their login.
there were some valid points againt the compromise, and I respect
that, That is precisely what i was asking for. Now, the concept of
retiring upon request does not bother me in the least, and I do reccommend
it, as opposed to leaving things the way they are. STeve- you point to
the past, and say "we have nothing to worry about, it's too rare".
I point to the future user, who, while searching through grex for the
first time, has people acting oddly, even if gently, toward them.
This could easily be enough to shoo someone away from here,
especially if they are new.
That is why this is of import.
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srw
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response 251 of 326:
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Nov 10 22:36 UTC 1995 |
There has been no discussion here for a week. A long time ago I proposed
a simple expedient. I will propose it again in the hope of stimulating
discussion here. We will almost certainly consider this proposal at the
upcoming board meeting (along with any other proposal that appears).
To wit:
Proposed: That staff honor any request to permanently reserve the
account name of any account that had belonged to a Grex user who
dies.
Note: It is not my intention to put any specific language with respect
to how this is verified. I leave that to staff's discretion, but it is
not to be unreasonably denied.
Note: I specifically did not mention any language about who may issue
the request. In fact I think anyone should be able to issue the request.
Note: There is no time limit after death during which the request
must be made.
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kerouac
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response 252 of 326:
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Nov 11 01:36 UTC 1995 |
This is a bad idea because it puts staff in the position of having to
verify users deaths. Some user might go on vacation for a couple of
weeks and as a prank, other user friends might tell staff that he died,
so that staff will reap his login and reserve it. Its a bureacratic
hassle, and starts a bad precedent. If this policy is in place, how long
before people want staff to reserve the logins of ANY former user,
whether deceased or not.
I still think adding a warning to newuser to tell prospective nusers that
the login they want belonged to either a deceased or longtime former user
is a better solution. It avoids making any policy, and takes care of the
one real issue, which is new users not knowing they have a "used" login.
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robh
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response 253 of 326:
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Nov 11 02:07 UTC 1995 |
It sounds good to me. Don't worry about the staff, kerouac,
I'm sure we'll wait more than a week before closing the
account. (As I recall, we never touched mlady's account,
and let it be zapped after three months of inactivity, as
usual.)
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kerouac
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response 254 of 326:
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Nov 11 02:41 UTC 1995 |
And why does it have to be "permanently". Why couldnt staff just
set aside such logins for a year or some other reasonable amount of time?
Nobody should be able to claim a login name eternally. Other than
helping new users avoid being hassled by unknowinlgy using an old login,
this whole argument is silly.
What if the person who died didnt want their login reserved? I know I
dont. I think this entire matter should be dropped. The deaths of
Grexers happen too rarely for there to be any policy at all. Amending
newuser doesnt even make sense unless you include former grexers who
have left, because newbies could still get their e-mail.
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janc
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response 255 of 326:
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Nov 11 06:28 UTC 1995 |
Staff is well aware of the possibility of a hoax. Probably reserving the
id will simply mean adding it to a list of reserved login names. The account
would naturally not be immediately deleted and would probably be left alone
until the time it would naturally be reaped.
If you really care what happens after you die, you can try putting things in
a will, but basically what happens after you die is up to your friends and
relations. Staff will happily cooperate with such friends and relations, but
I really don't think we want to get into collecting "wills" from users.
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rcurl
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response 256 of 326:
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Nov 11 06:54 UTC 1995 |
Why not? If the acquaintances of a user are able to cause the reservation
of a deceased user's id, it is even more imperative that an antedeceased
user be able to specify that his/her login id will be reserved or not.
Whose id is it, anyway? I know that if I popped it there would be an
enormous clamour to bronze my login id, and I would like to circumvent
that in advance. I'm with kerouac on this.
I request that the Proposed in #251 be amended to read:
Proposed: That staff honor any request to permanently reserve the
account name of any account that had belonged to a Grex user who
dies, except when a user has submitted a prior request that the account
name be reserved or not be reserved.
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popcorn
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response 257 of 326:
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Nov 11 19:45 UTC 1995 |
It amazes me to see how hot this issue is. Somehow it doesn't seem like
it ought to be the big deal it seems to be.
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rcurl
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response 258 of 326:
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Nov 11 21:00 UTC 1995 |
I agree completely. No one should give it even a second thought.
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kerouac
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response 259 of 326:
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Nov 12 01:41 UTC 1995 |
But what about former longtime users who leave the system? The point of
reserving deceased id's would be the same as reserving these?
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srw
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response 260 of 326:
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Nov 12 22:40 UTC 1995 |
I don't see any need to reserve the ID of a former longtime user who leaves.
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kerouac
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response 261 of 326:
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Nov 13 01:26 UTC 1995 |
But if the purpose of reserving deceased id's is to help newusers who
accidentally might get such id's from being harassed or getting
misdirected email, then former longtime users would clearly fall under
the same category.
If the point is simply to make a deceased user's friends more
comfortable, that is hardly something staff should be doing. Whats
next? To have staff go over and hold the hands of the user friends of
a deceased user and wipe the tears from their faces?
If this is to be done, it has to be for practical reasons, and if it
is done for practical reasons, you cant logically disinclude the old
ids of former longtime users.
It will be just as confusing for a newuser to get one of those ids as
it would if they got the id of a deceased user.
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srw
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response 262 of 326:
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Nov 13 07:57 UTC 1995 |
If a longtime user wants to keep his or her account, he should log in
regularly, or ask for it to be immortal. Both possibilities are already
available. I only proposed my proposal so that the friends of the
deceased would not have to suffer the shock of seeing the ID in use once more.
It was a direct respond to a clearly perceived (by me) need, based
on the responses I read in this here conference.
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rcurl
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response 263 of 326:
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Nov 13 15:21 UTC 1995 |
I do not perceive it as a need. A few may want it, but there have been
sufficient reasons given why it is inherently unfair. The "shock" of
encountering someone new with a previously used login id quickly
dissipates among rational people. It has been established that others
can lock up a login id simply by maintaining it. There is no reason
for Grex to adopt a policy or practice to reserve login ids. Let them
fall where they may.
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popcorn
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response 264 of 326:
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Nov 13 15:40 UTC 1995 |
Rane, I don't think it's fair to say that all rational people will
think the same way you do. This is a pretty subjective question, not
something with clearcut right and wrong answers.
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rcurl
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response 265 of 326:
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Nov 13 22:55 UTC 1995 |
I don't think it is a matter of "right" or "wrong" either. I think its
none of *Grex's* business. But if Grex makes it its business nevertheless,
it should be absolutely fair to everyone - including the living - and
honor "living wills" too. Might as well be globally ridiculous, as well
as boring.
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kerouac
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response 266 of 326:
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Nov 13 23:49 UTC 1995 |
Okay, stupid proposal #1,000,000....when newuser is prompting for
bio stats and address, add a question:
"In the event of your death, do you want Grex staff to
reserve your ID on the list of immortals so it cannot be reused?"
This is just as silly as doing it on request of friends, but it removes
the doubt and makes it fairer.
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kerouac
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response 267 of 326:
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Nov 14 02:37 UTC 1995 |
lets try this in newuser:
"In the event that you are either deceased or otherwise
permanently unable to use your login, would you like grex
staff to permanently reserve it?" (y/n)
This takess into account the possibility that a user may become
comatose or have brain damage, because CERTAINLY the reappearance
of such a user's id would cause great distress for their friends.
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srw
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response 268 of 326:
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Nov 14 03:05 UTC 1995 |
Rane says "Might as well be globally ridiculous, as well as boring."
I disagree.
Kerouac wants language about the event of death in newuser.
I disagree.
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gregc
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response 269 of 326:
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Nov 14 05:24 UTC 1995 |
Newuser question #739:
"In the event of takeover of the US government by hostile forces, would you
like your grex account:
a.) To be deleted and purged,
b.) left as is,
c.) shoot me now.
d.) I gave up at question #417 and went to AOL instead.
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rcurl
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response 270 of 326:
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Nov 14 06:31 UTC 1995 |
Whew! Nobody caught me out. That should have been *galactically*
ridiculous, as well as boring, in #265. :)
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scott
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response 271 of 326:
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Nov 14 11:59 UTC 1995 |
Newuser question #740: Even if you never come back to Grex again, in this
or any reincarnations, do you want your login ID permanently reserved by
staff?
It's a bad question for newuser. Maybe a question to pop after the user has
actually had time to establish a personality on Grex?
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robh
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response 272 of 326:
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Nov 14 13:11 UTC 1995 |
Maybe just an item in a conference somewhere, so that those users
who actually care can officially enter their requests, or
just mail them to staff? (NO! Not more staff mail!!!)
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gregc
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response 273 of 326:
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Nov 14 14:35 UTC 1995 |
I think a clear statement should be made in newuser to the effect of:
"This is not a professional commercial system. It is an ametuer volunteer
run, hobby oriented system. USE AT YOUR RISK. We are not responsible
for valuable/critical data stored and/or lost on this system."
I think this whole user ID issue is silly. Helping people learn how to
use the system is one thing, but I think we've gone overboard on our
concept of "support". Is this a computer conferencing system, or a mental
health clinic?
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carson
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response 274 of 326:
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Nov 14 15:24 UTC 1995 |
re #270: I was about to, but you beat me to it by nine hours.
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