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Grex > Agora41 > #37: What can be done in the middle east? | |
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| 25 new of 604 responses total. |
lk
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response 250 of 604:
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Apr 15 05:42 UTC 2002 |
Bruce, re#228:
I think it's important to understand why the Palestinian Red Crescent
ambulances are stopped and searched. A month or two ago, a suicide bomber
(herself a PRC employee) infiltrated into Israel aboard an ambulance. Last
week, an explosive belt was found in an ambulance which was transporting a
wounded boy (it was stashed underneath him). Way back in 2000, USA Today
reported that PRC ambulances were being used as supply vehicles and that their
drivers were seen shooting at Israelis. As I've got CNN tuned in, I hear of
a booby-trapped ambulance, rigged to kill Israeli troops.
If you read through the Fourth Geneva Conventions, you'll see that the PRC's
activities are clearly outside the scope of the convention for neutral medical
units -- and that Israel's searches are not only reasonable under the
circumstances but within its rights under the Convention.
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mdw
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response 251 of 604:
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Apr 15 05:49 UTC 2002 |
This is the same Israeli electorate that elected General Sharon to be
their prime minister, right? If that's dedication to peace, I hate to
think what they would do in case of war.
(#250 seems somewhat more repetive than usual.)
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lk
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response 252 of 604:
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Apr 15 06:40 UTC 2002 |
Sharon wasn't elected in a vacuum. Part of that "agenda" you discussed.
Joe, #229:
> I'm actually thinking that UN peacekeepers....
They don't have a very good history, not recently in the former Yugoslavia
and not in the mideast (recall that in 1967, upon Nasser's request, UN
peacekeepers vacated to open the way for an Egyptian attack against Israel).
But the critical question at this juncture: how will UN peacekeepers stop
suicide bombers from iniltrating into Israel and murdering innocent civilians?
They simply can't do it, and all they could do is prevent the Israeli army
from attacking the terrorist basis. If Afghanistan were next door to us and
attacks were on-going and not limited to 9/11, would it makes sense to have
peacekeepers between Al Qaida and the US Army?
Later, in #245, you claify:
> I'm talking about fully armed combat troops, with rules of engagement....
How quicly do you think these troops, like those in Lebanon, will themselves
become the target of suicide bombings?
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gull
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response 253 of 604:
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Apr 15 20:00 UTC 2002 |
Re #228: Several news sources have reported that the Israelis are now
shooting at foreign journalists, too. They don't want any outside
observers to see what's really going on, apparently.
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mvpel
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response 254 of 604:
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Apr 15 21:47 UTC 2002 |
Or just maybe the journalists ought to realize that traipsing around a war
zone is not a particularly safe and care-free way to pass one's time,
particularly if you fail to immediately and scrupulously comply with
the orders of armed soldiers, and particularly in a war zone where bombs
are hidden in ambulances and could just as well be hidden on individuals
posing as foreign journalists.
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lk
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response 255 of 604:
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Apr 15 21:49 UTC 2002 |
Sorry to disappoint you, but journalists who have entered Jenin said
they saw no evidence of the "massacre" alleged by PA propagandists.
In other news and a major set-back to Arab terrorism, Israel has
apprehended and arrested Marwan Barghouti, head of Tanzim. As ABC reports:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mideast020415.html
Barghouti, the Arafat aide who was arrested today, is the Tanzim
commander in the West Bank and one of the highest-profile members
of the Palestinian authority... The Tanzim is the armed wing of the
Fatah, the largest faction of the Palestinian Liberation Organization.
Some have sepculated that Barghouti would be Arafat's eventual successor
based on his political and military power base, though he has not been
designated as such. (That honor fell to Abu Mazen and Abu Ala, two aging
Tunisians and long-time Arafat aides. Some pundits have likened them to
Andropov and Chernienko, the two Soviet leaders who filled the gap for
a short time.)
While Rane refuses to acknowledge that Arafat walks, quacks and surrounds
himself with terrorist "ducks", ABC reports that Arafat is married to one:
Mrs. Arafat Supports Suicide Attacks
But even as Arafat issued a public condemnation of suicide bombings
on Saturday, following intense pressure from Washington, his wife,
Suha al-Taweel Arafat, has publicly endorsed suicide bombings.
In an interview with the London-based, Saudi-owned Al Majalla magazine
published a day before Arafat's public condemnation, Mrs. Arafat said
if she had a son, she would consider it an "honor" to sacrifice him
for the Palestinian cause.
"Would you expect me and my children to be less patriotic and more
eager to live than my countrymen and their father and leader who is
seeking martyrdom?" she was quoted as saying.
As she returned to her shopping spree in Paris, Mrs. Arafat made no mention
whether she would be willing to sacrifice their daughter (that they do have).
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mcnally
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response 256 of 604:
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Apr 16 10:04 UTC 2002 |
Many or most of the high-ranking Palestinian leadership must have children,
and yet I I find it extremely unlikely that any of the leaders truly would
send their OWN children out to blow themselves up for the cause (and not
just because such a close connection would compromise their charade of
plausible deniability..)
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rcurl
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response 257 of 604:
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Apr 16 14:05 UTC 2002 |
From the news reports it appears that the teenage bombers are not
telling their family and friends in advance. No one is "sending" them
except those that rig them with the bombs. They must volunteer
themselves, even if someone recruits them.
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happyboy
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response 258 of 604:
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Apr 16 14:31 UTC 2002 |
what pushes them *there* i wonder?
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lk
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response 259 of 604:
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Apr 16 14:47 UTC 2002 |
I don't think anyone is recruiting Arafat's daughter. Do you?
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happyboy
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response 260 of 604:
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Apr 16 14:56 UTC 2002 |
she probably hasn't been ghetto-ised. right?
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mvpel
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response 261 of 604:
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Apr 17 00:16 UTC 2002 |
What pushes them there? See the item I recently entered entitled "Jihad for
Children."
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aaron
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response 262 of 604:
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Apr 17 05:32 UTC 2002 |
Wow. Leeron justified the deprival of medical care to a million
Palestinians on the basis of a *single* incident? <feigns surprise at
Leerons' contempt for Palestinian life>
Let's see.... a massacre described by Palestinian propagandists, Leeron
says. Yet according to Ha'aretz:
> Foreign Minister Shimon Peres Peres is very worried about the expected
> international reaction as soon as the world learns the details of the tough
> battle in the Jenin refugee camps, where more than 100 Palestinians have
> already been killed in fighting with IDF forces. In private, Peres is
> referring to the battle as a "massacre."
>
> IDF officers also expressed grave reservations Monday over the operation in
> Jenin. "Because of the dangers," they said, "the soldiers are almost not
> advancing on foot. The bulldozers are simply 'shaving' the homes and causing
> terrible destruction. When the world sees the pictures of what we have done
> there, it will do us immense damage."
>
> "However many wanted men we kill in the refugee camp, and however much of
> the terror infrastructure we expose and destroy there, there is still no
> justification for causing such great destruction."
And in an article entitled "Defensive Shield won't end terror, senior
IDF source admits", Ha'aretz writes:
> A senior army source said yesterday that Operation Defensive Shield has
> caused long-range harm to the terror infrastructure in the territories,
> but has not undermined Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat's
> standing. He said that the Israeli Defense Force's actions in the West
> Bank cities have bolstered the militant spirit among Palestinians along
> with their hatred for Israel. "Belief in the path of Jihad is growing
> stronger," he warned.
Of course, people like Leeron and Mike are motivated by hatred, bigotry,
and an intense contempt for Palestinians, so I am sure they don't care
what the IDF thinks of its own operation. Not as long as they get to enjoy
the deaths, suffering, and deprivation inflicted upon a million or more
Palestinian civilians. Their cheap thrills, which set back the cause of
peace and extend this conflict - during which additional Israelis will
also die. Which, I suppose, will feed their hate - a cycle not unlike the
cycle of violence that Sharon has worked so hard to accelerate.
See also http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,685592,00.html
and http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,685656,00.html
Before this set of incursions, Israeli reporters found IDF conduct in a
smaller-scale operation so disturbing they ignored a censorship order
(with the apparent consequence being the complete exclusion of reporters
from the latest incursions....)
http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?category=World&story=/news/2002/03
/19/mideast_censor020319
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lk
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response 263 of 604:
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Apr 17 09:13 UTC 2002 |
> Leeron justified the deprival of medical care to a million Palestinians
> on the basis of a *single* incident?
First, as I detailed, it wasn't a "single incident". One would think that
Aaron would be critical of the PRC's violation of the Geneva Conventions --
not of Israel's appropriate reaction as it is entitled by those conventions.
Second, we were discussing slight DELAYS at checkpoints, not the "deprival"
of urgent care to "million[s]" of Palestinian Arabs.
Aaron goes on to demonstrate that Israel has a vibrant and free press and
that, as a democratic society, there are healthy differences of opinions.
Which doesn't make such an opinion or criticism right just because it came
from an Israeli source.
For example, Ha'aretz writes:
> In private, Peres is referring to the battle as a "massacre."
Peres appeared on Larry King yesterday and denied this.
The bottom line? In recent days journalists have been allowed into the Jenin
"refugee camp". They found no signs of the alleged "massacre", despite
destruction and signs of fierce battles (I believe Israel lost more soldiers
here, in absolute numbers and in a matter of days, than the US has in 6 months
in Afghanistan).
> people like Leeron and Mike are motivated by hatred, bigotry, and an intense
> contempt for Palestinians
Aaron continues his "big lie", borne out of his own personal hatred and
juvenile vendetta.
> as long as they get to enjoy the deaths....
I don't see Israelis celebrating the deaths of Palestinian Arabs. To the
contrary, though, we saw Palestinian Arabs celebrating the deaths of 3000
innocent Americans on 9/11. Celebrations that were repeated in the Arab world
following "successful" suicide bombings murdering dozens of innocent Israelis.
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scott
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response 264 of 604:
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Apr 17 12:49 UTC 2002 |
From http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/020416/w0416135.html
(Candian Broadcasting Company news service):
"On Tuesday, neither a close visual inspection of the ruined centre of the
camp, nor many conversations with residents, nor interviews with aid workers
could substantiate how many people died here."
(I'll also note that before Leeron starts making accusations of a "biased"
news source, Canada was one of the 5 countries voting against a UN resolution
condemning Israel for "mass killings")
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void
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response 265 of 604:
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Apr 18 21:27 UTC 2002 |
It appears that some members of the IDF are starting to think their
government is going too far:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,686088,00.html
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lk
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response 266 of 604:
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Apr 18 22:36 UTC 2002 |
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-041602jenin.story
Massacre Allegations Smolder in Camp Ruins
Mideast: Palestinians are convinced that Israelis slaughtered several hundred
people in Jenin. But few bodies have been recovered.
...On one such tour Monday, reporters reached the center of the camp, ground
zero of this conflict.
As the journalists picked their way through back alleys and partially
destroyed homes, dozens of survivors emerged tentatively for the first time
since the offensive began, to assess the damage and look for missing friends
and relatives.
"This is where all the killing was," Hania Kabia said, waving her arms over
the mountains of rubble. Kabia's house faces the devastation but was spared,
she said, because soldiers used it as a post. Like many residents, she
insisted that numerous Palestinians lay entombed in her wretchedly altered
surroundings.
As yet, it has been impossible to verify large numbers of dead. No clear
evidence has emerged so far to corroborate the assertion of a massacre. Both
sides agree that, at the least, about 100 fighters probably died, along with
civilians.
While there are pockets that smell of death, the odor is not as pervasive as
might be expected if hundreds of corpses lay underneath the rubble. Witnesses
can offer the details of a handful of deaths, including executions and the
killing of civilians in their homes, but there are so far no long lists of
dead, nor witness accounts of mass murder.
The Red Crescent teams entered about 7 a.m.... THEY FOUND THREE CORPSES BUT
COULD ONLY REMOVE ONE BECAUSE THE OTHER TWO WERE WEARING BELTS OF EXPLOSIVES
LIKE THOSE USED BY SUICIDE BOMBERS.
-----
There is no evidence of a "massacre" precisely because there wasn't one. Just
like the pregnant woman who delivered a still-born baby wasn't delayed at a
checkpoint, and just as the "soccer player" wasn't killed while playing soccer,
and just as there is no such thing as a "silenced M16", and just as a man who
was allegedly tortured to death was actually killed in a car accident.
Since the above story was written, 48 bodies have been recovered.
45 of them were armed Islamic Jihad fighters.
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klg
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response 267 of 604:
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Apr 19 00:24 UTC 2002 |
lk: I doubt you're a reader of the Weekly Standard, but you ought to take
a look at the article "Evil's Advantage Over Conscience - Why the West Give
Yasser Arafat Endless Second Chances." Fin it at:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/104ivafk.
asp
It's written by a psychiatrist who demonstrates how Arafat (remember, he's
the guy who won a Nobel Peace Prize in 1994) has been playing the West
(including many Israelis) like a fiddle.
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lk
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response 268 of 604:
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Apr 19 02:57 UTC 2002 |
Fascinating article, especially the psychiatric and Shakespearian references.
Here's another curious headline:
21:03 Saudi Foriegn Minister: Middle East is heading into abyss if nothing
is done to control violence
Wonder if that's a reaction to the Saudi Ambassador in London who wrote a
poem(?) in a local paper in praise of suicide bombers.
If that wasn't bad enough:
http://www.memri.org/news.html#1018674363
Saudi Government-Controlled Daily Praises Passover and Jerusalem Supermarket
Suicide Bombers
In a recent article for the Saudi government-controlled daily Al-Jazirah,
columnist Dr. Khalil Ibrahim Al-Sa'adat applauded the actions of 'Abd Al-Baset
'Oudeh, the Palestinian who detonated himself at a Passover 'Seder' in a
Netanya hotel, and Ayat Al-Akhras, who carried out a suicide attack in a
Jerusalem supermarket. Following are excerpts from the article:(1)
"May Allah have mercy upon you, oh 'Abd Al-Baset 'Oudeh, mujaheed and martyr,
the quiet hero who infiltrated so elegantly and spoke so gaily. You defended
your religion, your homeland, and your people. You attached no importance to
[any] Arab summit; you did not wait for international agreements; you did not
follow television interviews; you did not pause because of dead Arab and
international reactions that neither help nor hinder...."
"May Allah have mercy on you, oh Ayat Al-Akhras. You left your home for the
path of martyrdom and Paradise. Your family knew not where you were headed,
and knew not that you had chosen the way of martyrdom. There was nothing to
stop you You proceeded with a determination, will, and strength rarely found,
even impossible to find, in a 16-year-old girl"
(1) Al-Jazirah (Saudi Arabia), April 1, 2002.
The oddest part is that the Passover massacre was perpetrated even as the
"Saudi plan" (demands) were about to be considered at the Arab Summit.
Could it be that this "plan" was just a PR ploy for American consumption
and that the Saudi government isn't at all upset that it was shot down by
Arab militants?
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scott
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response 269 of 604:
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Apr 19 03:23 UTC 2002 |
"Ha! There's no evidence, just piles of rubble!".
Um.
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happyboy
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response 270 of 604:
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Apr 19 10:49 UTC 2002 |
"please ignore the rotting smell...it's coming from
the meat that was left in the refridgerators."
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aaron
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response 271 of 604:
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Apr 19 21:50 UTC 2002 |
It is interesting that, having been caught misstating the facts, Leeron
didn't simply admit that he was wrong. I wonder if he even *wants*
people to believe a word he says.
In terms of denial of medical care, I refer you to the statements of
the International Committee for the Red Cross, which has been quite
explicit in its condemnations of Israel for blocking access to medical
care and humanitarian aid, and for firing on its ambulances. And
when "delays" extend to the point where people die waiting at
checkpoints, or people bleed to death in the street with their bodies
left to rot for days, it makes one wonder how Leeron
distinguishes "delay" from "denial".
In terms of Israelis celebrating Palestinian deaths, somehow Leeron has
missed such things as the annual celebration of Barch Goldstein's
massacre of Palestinians. Of the shrine they lovingly built over his
grave. A couple of years ago they were even out in costume - dancing
and singining in celebration of the murders, while dressed up as the
terrorist murderer they so admire. Leeron would correctly argue that
the celebrants don't represent all Israelis, but at the same time would
prove himself a hypocrite - as he clearly expects us to join in his
monolithic hatred of all Palestinians, great and small.
It should be noted that the IDF now projects that the terorrist
networks in the occupied territories will not be restored for a period
of at least weeks, and perhaps as long as six months. (As quoted in
Ha'aretz.) This much destruction, demolition, and human misery
intentionally inflicted on civilians, for at best a six month reduction
in the efficacy of groups like Hamas? What a victory....
It should also be noted that suicide bombings were an unusual event
before Israel elected a war criminal as Prime Minister, walked away
from peace talks, and chose to rely entirely on military escalation.
This would seemingly be 100% inconsistent with a desire for peace, but
then Sharon's intention has never been to achieve peace - peace would
mean losing his beloved illegal settlements, and having to compromise
over the Palestinian aquifer he has sworn will never leave Israel's
control. Peace would mean having to choke out the words he has never
been able to say - that the Palestinian people actually do exist, and
that they should have a bona fide state of their own.
I now return you to Leeron's regularly scheduled regurgitation of
propaganda.
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other
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response 272 of 604:
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Apr 20 01:25 UTC 2002 |
Received the following today (from my brother, who received it from an
Israeli businessman with whom he is working closely):
16.04.2002 13:43
Dov Shoam, general manager of Israeli-based Radix, which provides
computer database storage and maintenance solutions, received an e-mail
this week from a Danish client, canceling a major order due to "the
Israeli militaire [sic]… behaving so rough in the Palestinian Areas". The
client said he spoke for both his company and his professional union. The
story was reported yesterday by Israeli daily "Yediot Aharonot".
Shoham made the unusual decision to answer his Danish colleague in a long
and detailed letter, explaining the Israeli position and the reasons for
the current action against Palestinian Authority. The correspondence is
presented below.
To: The Manager
Just now we're ready to buy 60 pieces off your "Radix protector net
solution." But for the moment, when the Israeli militaire [sic]is
behaving so rough in the Palestinian Areas, nor I or my Union feel that
it's is right to make business with companies from your country. We hope
that this ugly war will stop soon - and also we hope that Israel and
Palestine will agree on peace.
Sincerely Yours
[Name withheld]
Response e-mail from Radix:
To: [Name withheld]
Regardless of the fact that seven years after the Oslo agreement most of
the Palestinians live under full political and economical control of
Yasser Arafat, the Palestinians dare to claim that their brutal terror
attacks against Israeli civilians is a result of living under Israeli
occupation!!!
You buy this nonsense; you blame Israel for defending itself against the
most brutal terrorism campaign against civilians the world ever saw. Your
heavy pressure is aimed toward Israel instead of the terrorists.
I hate to say that my friend but you SUPPORT TERROR!
Since I believe that you are a honest person and I don't really think
that you mean to support terror or harm Israel, I would like to inform
you few things that you might forgot [sic] but your media do not bother
to remind you.
18 months ago, Palestinian leader - Mr. Yasser Arafat rejected Israel's
offer to get full control on 97% of the land he claimed plus alternative
land for the remain 3%. 100% of the land he claims!! This offer is
considered by most of the Israelis as far more than Israel can offer
without risking its security.
The Palestinian responded breaking the peace talks and massive terror
against Israeli civilians.
Any idea why did the Palestinians reject such generous offer? The answer
is very simple. Yasser Arafat doesn't want a state next to Israel. He
wants a Palestinian state built on the ruins of Israel. A Palestinian
State instead of State of Israel!
Do you support that? Do you really think that Israel should let the
Palestinians build a state on the ruins of Israel? Would you let them
build their state on the ruins of Denmark?
Imagine yourself drinking beer in your lovely Tivoli gardens when a bomb
exploding under the seat spread[s] your body all over the garden. Imagine
yourself in a situation when a bus exploded in the center of Copenhagen
and you know that your daughter might be on that bus. You can't reach her
because thousands like you trying to reach their relatives using the same
overloaded cellular network.
Now imagine that this is the everyday situation in Denmark for 18 months.
Would you accept such situation? I don't think so.
No matter what is the cause of the Palestinian suffer[ing], my daughter
is not responsible for that. She is not the one that has to be blamed for
the Palestinian suffer[ing] and she shouldn't pay the price for Arafat's
megalomania.
Let me clearly state that I have no problem choose between doing business
with you or support my government in its effort to protect my daughter's
life.
Because of your support in terror I hold you personally responsible for
my daughter safety.
I really hope that the Israeli government will not bend under your unfair
and unbalanced pressure and continue with the work of rooting out terror
from this region. Yes, even if I lose your business. If we fail, God
forbids [sic], we are doomed and you are next in line.
Yes, Palestinian civilians pays [sic] [a] heavy price. Many [are] killed
by our military actions. Yes, we all think that this is terrible. But
this is unfortunately the situation when terrorist[s] find shelters
behind civilians. Labs where bombs are manufactured are located in
civilian neighborhoods. Palestinians "brave" warriors took shelters
behind women and children, in schools and in ambulances.
There is one person to be blamed for the Palestinians suffer[ing] - Mr.
Yasser Arafat.
For six years since he got the full control on the Palestinians life
[sic], all he did is building [sic] the terror infrastructure, preparing
for a war instead of developing the country and improving the life of his
people.
By the way, I didn't notice that any of you or other peace lovers [sic]
sensitive Europeans doing anything to stop the terror against Israeli
civilians. Your voice was not heard when terrorist[s] kept exploding
themselves among Israelis in nightclubs, cafes, buses, schools, markets
and hotels in the center of the cities taking [a] huge number [of]
innocent lives.
You people woke up only after Israel stood up and start[ed] to fight
back.
We will do all it takes to defend ourselves because no one else will do
it for us. Definitely not the Europeans.
My mother is still alive to remind me what she has gone through in your
civilized Europe 60 years ago.
We are going to defend ourselves even if it will disturb your sensitive
soul in Europe and even if cost us to lose some business with you [sic].
But I advise to you to wake up. I know that you do not mean to encourage
the Palestinian to go on with their brutal terror actions against
civilians. Am I wrong?
Best regards
Dov Shoam
General Manager
http://www.radix.co.il
Published by Israel’s Business Arena on April 16, 2002.
----------
Not to do lk's work for him, but I thought this was worth bringing into
the discussion. Especially since I don't trust the impartiality and
accuracy of Leeron's information any more than I do anything which comes
out of the PLO.
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lk
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response 273 of 604:
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Apr 20 03:08 UTC 2002 |
Aaron, there are also people in the US who celebrate cross-burnings and
racial murders. As you know, Kahane's party (before it was outlawed as
racist) only managed to muster 1 seat out of 120 in Israel's Knesset.
Yet on 9/11, and after "successful" suicide/homicide bombings in Israel,
thousands of Palestinian Arabs (and Arabs elsewhere) celebrated in the
streets. Polls indicate that 65-85% of the Palestinian Arab population
supports the murder of innocent Israeli civilians. The "denial" is yours
in trying to compare this to a handful of Israeli nuts, creating a false
equivalence as if both or neither of these are representative.
Other, perhaps you'll trust an interview of an Isalmic Jihad member from
Al Ahram (which I believe is Egypt's largest paper)?
http://web1.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2002/582/6inv2.htm
Al-Ahram Weekly Online
18 - 24 April 2002
Issue No.582
The 'engineer'
An engineer of the fiercest battle waged by the Palestinians during the
invasion of the West Bank spoke to Jonathan Cook about the days of defiance
in Jenin
Omar sits restlessly on his chair in the safe-house. He is an "engineer" from
Jenin refugee camp: one of the revered bomb-makers from the City of the
Bombers. To the Israelis he is the most lethal, and wanted, of terrorists.
The poison from the Cobra's head.
We meet late last Thursday, hours after he escaped from the camp as Israeli
soldiers took control of the area. We are still close enough to Jenin that
we can see the constant stream of illumination flares, three launched by the
army at a time, that light up the soldiers' dark work in the city below.
But Omar will not be staying here long. He is going to ground deeper in the
West Bank before regrouping with his comrades from Jenin.
There may not be too many. Even according to Israeli army sources, at least
a hundred fighters were killed and hundreds more wounded and captured during
the eight days of savage fighting.
Omar will not give his name or age. He is slim, in his mid-20s, with a closely
cropped beard. He is a member of Islamic Jihad, but says in Jenin all the
factions were loyal to only one cause: liberation or death.
Visible beneath a blue bomber jacket is the tightly bandaged stump of his
right arm, the end of which he rubs distractedly.
How did he lose it? During the previous invasion of Jenin by the Israeli army
several weeks ago, he says. He was hiding with only his arm visible as he
tried to throw a 'kwa' -- a home-made pipe bomb -- at a tank. Shrapnel from
a shell severed it, he says.
But as a bomb-maker, one of the most highly respected positions in the
Palestinian resistance, he could equally have lost the arm in less glorious
circumstances: in one of the explosions that are a professional hazard of his
job.
Omar admits he is one of only a few dozen fighters not to emerge either dead
or in plastic handcuffs from the fiercest battle waged by the Palestinians
during the Israeli army's invasion of the West Bank.
Of his group of 30 gunmen, only four escaped from the camp on Wednesday, after
the Palestinian arsenal ran dry. Most of the others were shot dead.
"Of all the fighters in the West Bank we were the best prepared," he says.
"We started working on our plan: to trap the invading soldiers and blow them
up from the moment the Israeli tanks pulled out of Jenin last month."
Omar and other "engineers" made hundreds of explosive devices and carefully
chose their locations.
"WE HAD MORE THAN 50 HOUSES BOOBY-TRAPPED AROUND THE CAMP. We chose old and
empty buildings and the houses of men who were wanted by Israel because we
knew the soldiers would search for them," he said.
"We cut off lengths of mains water pipes and packed them with explosives and
nails. Then we placed them about four metres apart throughout the houses --
in cupboards, under sinks, in sofas."
THE FIGHTERS HOPED TO DISABLE THE ISRAELI ARMY'S TANKS WITH MUCH MORE POWERFUL
BOMBS PLACED INSIDE RUBBISH BINS ON THE STREET. MORE EXPLOSIVES WERE HIDDEN
INSIDE THE CARS OF JENIN'S MOST WANTED MEN.
CONNECTED BY WIRES, THE BOMBS WERE SET OFF REMOTELY, triggered by the current
from a car battery.
According to Omar, everyone in the camp, including the children, knew where
the explosives were located so that there was no danger of civilians being
injured. It was the one weakness in the plan.
"We were betrayed by the spies among us," he says. The wires to more than a
third of the bombs were cut by soldiers accompanied by collaborators. "If it
hadn't been for the spies, the soldiers would never have been able to enter
the camp. Once they penetrated the camp, it was much harder to defend."
And what about the explosion and ambush last Tuesday which killed 13 soldiers?
"They were lured there," he says. "We all stopped shooting and the women went
out to tell the soldiers that we had run out of bullets and were leaving."
The women alerted the fighters as the soldiers reached the booby- trapped
area.
"When the senior officers realised what had happened, they shouted through
megaphones that they wanted an immediate cease-fire. We let them approach to
retrieve the men and then opened fire.
"Some of the soldiers were so shocked and frightened that they mistakenly ran
towards us."
On Wednesday, after the fighters ran out of ammunition, he says, armoured
vehicles roamed the streets calling out to them in Arabic: "You are finished
and can't win against us. We are more powerful than you. Surrender."
He saw one fighter who went down to the street with his hands in the air shot
dead by snipers. He chose to flee the camp, although he will not say how.
Using his left arm, Omar shot a revolver during the gun battles.
With a new intensity on his face, he leans forward to ask a question. Do I
think the doctors will be able to give him a strong new artificial arm with
fingers he can operate. I don't know, I say. Why?
"Because I want to be able to hold a heavy rifle again. That way I can kill
more Israeli soldiers. It's that or become a suicide bomber."
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response 274 of 604:
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Apr 20 04:14 UTC 2002 |
Here's my dilemma: In order to formulate my opinions about issues (if I
bother to do so) I like to try to put myself into the mindset of those on
each side of the debate so that I can understand where each side is
coming from and develop a realistic picture of the differences between
the sides. The problem I'm having is that the information I need in
order to model those mindsets is either insufficiently available, or
utterly obscured by a flood of mis- and disinformation. Either that, or
I'm simply too exhausted to sort through the vast quantity of words on
the topic to find the truly useful nuggets.
What I'm left with, then, is a perception that I'm being given only that
information which each side believes will garner it my support, without
any sense that the truth is accurately discernable in the wide gap
between the "facts" presented by each side.
My natural inclination is to side with the Israelis, not because I'm
Jewish, but because their methods (as best I can tell from that
information I believe to be reliable) are slightly less stupidly self-
defeating. That's a harsh way to put it, and probably even slightly
moreso than the way I really feel, but it gets my point across.
What turns me off most about this whole thing is the fanaticism evidenced
by the proponents of each side in roundly condemning the other side
without any apparent sense of their own side's shortcomings in the
process. This, more than any other single feature of the conflict,
generates ambivalence in me, because it is that very fanaticism which
engenders this conflict and prevents its swift and complete resolution.
I listen to each side un-self-consciously blame the other and all I can
feel is that they deserve each other, and god help the poor civilians
caught in the middle -- on BOTH sides -- and if they succeed in
completely destroying each other, then the rest of us will all be better
off without them.
The preponderance of the information I'm getting suggests that the
Palestinians have for decades now worked to create a situation which can
only be resolved in one of two ways: either they are completely destroyed
as a people, or they get everything they want and everyone else be
damned. I'm also getting the impression that the Israelis have the
choice of two terrible paths: 1) accept periodic explosions in their
population centers which result in numerous civilian deaths, and respond
only in non-violent, non-military ways calculated to defuse Palestinian
malcontent over a long period by swaying world opinion and generating
political pressure, or; 2) fight fire with bigger fire, bring world
opinion and political pressure down upon themselves while escalating this
conflict until either they totally destroy the Palestinians and all the
other Arabs who come to their aid or they bring about their own
annhilation before they can finish off the Palestinians.
Neither of these options is appealing, but the latter one seems to be the
path of least resistance. It is extremely difficult for an entire nation
to find the moral courage and the strength of will to take the former
path but I don't see a better option in the real world. And I certainly
don't think any pressure from outside Israel will lead to its taking the
former path.
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