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Grex > Music2 > #273: he's mad as hell, and he's not gonna take it anymore: Pat Metheny v. the G-man |  |
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| 25 new of 50 responses total. |
tod
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response 25 of 50:
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Jul 24 10:58 UTC 2000 |
Spice Girls sold many albums too. What's the point?
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jerryr
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response 26 of 50:
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Jul 24 12:23 UTC 2000 |
yeah, look at elwood parsley.
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brighn
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response 27 of 50:
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Jul 24 14:23 UTC 2000 |
#25> *My* point was inreference to somebody earlier suggesting that Methany
was just rippin' on Kenny 'cuz Kenny sold more albums, but that somebody
didn't know what the comparable sales were, so I was verifyin' that yes,
indeed, Kenny has sold many more.
Of course, record sales mean nothing about talent... doesn't even necessarily
mean that much about long-term popularity. While The Beatles are #1, Elvis
ain't #2 -- that belongs to Garth, who in 20 years probably won't be remember
ed anywhere near as fondly as Elvis (and, ironically, it's roughly the same
demographic that made each famous, and a different "same demographic" that
made each rich).
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tod
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response 28 of 50:
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Jul 24 14:46 UTC 2000 |
It's a Walmart world. :)
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danr
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response 29 of 50:
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Jul 24 15:51 UTC 2000 |
I took Metheny's views to be less of a reasonable criticism than sour grapes.
If his music is so superior, he should let the music speak for itself. To get
into a pissing contest about it just diminishes him.
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jerryr
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response 30 of 50:
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Jul 24 16:28 UTC 2000 |
maybe i was being a bit obtuse. if you read book reviews you will find many
are written by authors writing in the same field. not all of them are
complimentary. same difference. he was expressing his opinion. are you
suggesting that he is not entitled to one?
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drew
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response 31 of 50:
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Jul 24 19:18 UTC 2000 |
Re #14: Yes.
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russ
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response 32 of 50:
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Jul 25 02:49 UTC 2000 |
Kenny G. is cotton-candy music: looks good, but no substance.
I own a couple of his CDs, so I am qualified to talk.
Pat Metheny has quite a bit of range, and is easily ten times the
musician that Kenny G. is. (Don't believe me? Listen to "Secret
Story", "Imaginary Day" and "I can see your house from here" and
see the kind of stuff Metheny gets into.) If Metheny says KG is
a poseur, it's a pretty authoritative opinion.
Except for one noise-guitar album, I've not found anything by Metheny
that wasn't a keeper.
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danr
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response 33 of 50:
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Jul 25 03:32 UTC 2000 |
re #30: I don't think it is the same difference. Criticism does not have to
tinged with bitterness over someone else's success. #0 sounds to me as though
Metheny thinks he's more "worthy" of the fame and the money than G is. He may
be, but I'm sorry, doesn't sit well with me.
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brighn
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response 34 of 50:
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Jul 25 05:46 UTC 2000 |
I read #0, rather than merely scanning it, and would like to say that Danr's
criticism depends on Methany interspersing "and I'm great" at the end of every
paragraph. Methany does no such thing. Indeed, the bulk of the coents read
as a music critic/historian/lover, not as a musician. A few times, indeed,
Methany refers to his own career (notably at the end), bu for the most part
h sticks to comments like "Kenny G isn't Armstrong""" and "Kenny G isn't
HHancock"... In fact, Methany seems to suggest that if he himself (Pat, that
is) were to overdub Armstrong, hed be entitled to the same tongue-lashing he
promises Kenny.
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danr
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response 35 of 50:
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Jul 25 12:00 UTC 2000 |
My point is that Metheny should have stuck to his criticism of the overdubbing
and not gotten into all that other shit. It had no real purpose, but to try to
tear the guy down, and I still say it reads like sour grapes. It's as though
Thomas Pynchon decided to criticize Barbara Cartland for writing trashy romance
novels. What's the point?
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jerryr
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response 36 of 50:
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Jul 25 13:03 UTC 2000 |
the point is that reviews are subjective opinions and you are allowed not to
agree with them. in fact, they can be quite useful. take christopher potter,
the sometimes movie reviewer in the a2 snooze. 99% of the time if he pans
a movie i rush out to see it. i know i am going to enjoy it.
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brighn
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response 37 of 50:
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Jul 25 15:43 UTC 2000 |
If somebody asked Thomas Pynchon, "I understand you don't like Barbara
Cartland's writing. Could you tell me why?" I certainly wouldn't expect
Pynchon to say, "Well, honestly, it's just not constructive to comment on
that." It's not as if Methany wasn't ASKED for an opinion. Methany loves
music. He was asked why he wasn't impressed with Kenny G's music. He
responded.
The only "sour grapes" I see in #0 is where Methany comments that he used
Kenny G's music -- unprovoked -- as a representation of stupid music. that
would be like Pynchon teaching a lit class and using Cartland as an example
of "what not to do." The reason being plain: Kenny G (and Cartland) are
extremely popular, so obviously they're doing SOMETHING right. As much as I
dislike Britney, N'Sync, and the like musically, it's fairly obvious that
they're hitting SOME sort of chord with the public, else they wouldn't be
getting any sales at all. Musical talent aside, they clearly have marketing
and presentation skills, if nothing else... while they may fail (and that's
a subjective opinion) at the art of music, they succeed at the business of
entertainment, and that's gotta count for SOMETHING.
Instead, Methany should be hanging about in the cutout bins and finding bad
and commercially unsuccessful music, because that fails on BOTH counts (being
neither artistic nor entertaining).
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mary
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response 38 of 50:
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Jul 25 16:32 UTC 2000 |
I don't know Pat Metheny and, that I know of, have never heard his music.
Evidently, the opinion he gave, as printed here, is a follow-up to
comments he'd made earlier. I suspect he didn't need to be asked to go
off on Kenny G rather that it came quite easily. The tone of his review
isn't scholastic as much as bitter and angry and pissed as hell that
someone is not respecting and pursuing what he sees as True Jazz. He
is very much entitled to his point of view. I read it all. Sorry, he
sounds like a child with a bruised ego who just found out his way
doesn't rule. He also isn't very succinct and tends to ramble some
not saying as much as his words imply. But that's okay, lots of
people do that, and I could have stopped reading at any time.
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brighn
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response 39 of 50:
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Jul 25 16:46 UTC 2000 |
I'll grant that it does come off in general too personal and not considered
enough. *shrug* I don't mean to sound like I'm defending Methany. I'm not.
I have no feelings one way or the other. I'm responding to Danr's general
claim that people who (rightly or wrongly) are seen as experts or leaders in
an art shouldn't (with or without provocation) fully criticize people who
(rightly or wrongly) are seen as superficial or "commercial" contributors to
an art.... which is how I interpreted, in this context, his comments that
"people who are superior shouldn't criticize people who are inferior."
Whether Methany's comments are provoked or not, all we have to judge by here
is the fact that, he was asked a question, and he responded to that question.
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danr
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response 40 of 50:
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Jul 26 11:56 UTC 2000 |
That last comment isn't really true. Whenever someone answers a question or
makes a comment, you evaluate it on several levels. There are the words
themselves and the way in which those words are delivered. If this interview
had been filmed, there would also be the tone of voice and the body language
being used when answering the question.
Having said that, I should perhaps modify my comment about people who think
they are superior criticizing those who they feel are inferior. They have every
right to criticize work they feel is inferior or out of line (i.e. Kenny G's
overdubbing of Louis Armstrong), but when that criticism become a personal
attack, the criticism demeans the critic.
Did Metheny personally attack Kenny G? It sounds to me like he's doing that,
but your interpretation may vary.
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jerryr
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response 41 of 50:
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Jul 26 13:53 UTC 2000 |
i wonder if passion is being mistaken for pettiness? i have no way of knowing
but does anyone?
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danr
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response 42 of 50:
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Jul 26 15:47 UTC 2000 |
That's certainly possible, and I'm willing to give Metheny the benefit of the
doubt on that.
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brighn
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response 43 of 50:
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Jul 26 17:51 UTC 2000 |
#40> Your evaluation is still limited to the communication ... Of course,
someone's response isn't just limited to the contents of the words selected.
Based on your amendment, I agree with your comments.
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edina
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response 44 of 50:
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Aug 5 12:25 UTC 2000 |
Having owned both Kenny G and Pat Metheny and having seen both in concert,
I undersatnd where Pat is coming from. I don't think it's sour graes - I
think
it's him voicing his opinion. I think that Kenny G is stupid music - I think
that Pat Metheny is an amazing musician, both solo and with the Pat Metheny
group.
But then, this is all subjective, ISN"T it?
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jerryr
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response 45 of 50:
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Aug 5 13:32 UTC 2000 |
d'oh
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lelande
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response 46 of 50:
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Aug 5 19:24 UTC 2000 |
not ALL, but plenty 'nuff.
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russ
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response 47 of 50:
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Aug 6 21:09 UTC 2000 |
Hear, hear, Brooke.
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krj
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response 48 of 50:
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Aug 20 00:21 UTC 2000 |
Guitarist Adrian Legg had a few rude, funny put-downs of Kenny G
at his Ark show this week. It's probably fortunate that I can't
remember what they are, due to libel laws. :)
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arabella
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response 49 of 50:
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Sep 11 05:27 UTC 2000 |
Damn, now I'm going to have to listen to some Kenny G., just to
verify for myself that he really does play consistently sharp.
Sharpness is more annoying to my ear than flatness...
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