response 26 of 624:

Dec 20 19:40 UTC 1996

Sorry, could someone clarify:  Does anonymous reading of grex conferences,
via backtalk or any other method, mean without having to create a grex
account, which an in-dialer or telnetter would do with newuser?  If that's
what it means, then I'm against the idea, and would vote against it.

response 28 of 624:

Dec 20 23:26 UTC 1996

But note that people who don't create accounts would have READ ACCESS ONLY.
They couldn't post anything without creating an account.

Also note that Grex has for some time had two different programs for creating
accounts.  The "newuser" program which is used by telnetters and dial-in
users, and the "webnewuser" form that can be used over the web.  So people
wanting to use the Web Conferencing don't need to telnet in to create an
account.

I don't think the argument about anonymous readers being scary because they
are anonymous makes any sense.  They really aren't any more or less anonymous
than any of our other users.

But I do think that letting them skip the registration step puts these people
in a state where they are reading Grex but can't fully participate.  It makes
more sense to encourage them to get accounts up front so they'll be real
participants once they get on line.

But anonymous reading, even if we don't strongly encourage it, does have
advantages.  For example, I could put links to Grex items on my home page.
For example, my home page might include something like:

   For a really neat discussion of this, see Agora14 item 90 on Grex.
                                             -----------------------

So that when people clicked on the link, they would see the item via Backtalk.
You can do that now, but anyone following the link would be greeted by a
Grex login box, which they would have to satisfy with a valid Grex login.
It'd be nicer if they could just see the item.

So I don't have a strong preference, but my weak preference would be to
allow anonymous reading, but barely mention the possibility on our web
pages, using it mostly as a way to do things like the link above.  So people
could read anonymously, but they'd pretty much have to figure out how by
themselves.  We wouldn't advertize the option.

response 30 of 624:

Dec 22 02:09 UTC 1996

It strikes me that restricting backtalk to those with accounts makes little
sense for several reasons.  First, part of Grex's declaration of principles
is 'to foster free exchange of information', or some such.  So, restricting
people from seeing conference info because of something so trivial as not
having an account seems to me like restricting that for no good reason. 
Second, the thing about anonymous reading not encouraging people to be members
isn't really true, I don't think.  Just seeing that there is this discussion
going on, and knowing that all it takes to participate is filling out a little
form, would be plenty of incentive.  Certainly more incentive to join the
conferences than those who just use Grex for mail get.

response 32 of 624:

Dec 22 07:48 UTC 1996

I started reading the conferences by cating the raw files.  It took me a while
to track down what program was generating those files tucked in right along
side /bin.
 :)

response 34 of 624:

Dec 22 18:23 UTC 1996

Going through newuser, even the web form of it, is a bit of a hassle.  I think
people are less likely to bother if they don't know what it will get them.
If people can look through the conferences first and see that they look
interesting, they are more likely to run newuser so that they can post.  Also,
staff gets bombarded by account deletion requests from people who have gone
through newuser and then found that Grex wasn't what they were looking for.
If people could find out what Grex was without going through newuser first,
staff time could be freed up to do more useful things.

Selena still hasn't answered the question about what the big problem with
"anonymous" reading is.

response 36 of 624:

Dec 22 21:24 UTC 1996

And as far as newuser forcing them to read what grex is about, it doesn't.
The last few times I've run newuser, web newsuser especially, I didn't read
a single thing that wasn't a question I had to answer.  Why should any veteran
web user, used to filling out forms at the drop of a hat, read all the
"extraneous" information that goes with the form?

response 38 of 624:

Dec 23 03:29 UTC 1996

I doubt many people read the information presented in the newuser 
program.  There is so much information, that most people probably just 
hit "ENTER to CONTINUE" through the entire thing.

response 40 of 624:

Dec 23 16:44 UTC 1996

But Grex is *supposed* to be cheap.

response 42 of 624:

Dec 25 01:12 UTC 1996

I went looking at firefly recently.  You have to create an account there
before they'll let you in.  I wanted to see what it was before I gave them
enough info to create an account.  I'm sure we lose potential users that way.


About reading the info in newuser: I think it's a matter of personal style.
A lot of people, especially people who aren't too secure about their computer
knowledge, *do* read everything in newuser.  A lot of other people don't. 
There's no way to come up with a one-size-fits-all description of how people
run newuser.

response 44 of 624:

Dec 25 05:31 UTC 1996

I like the idea of "anonymous" reading of conferences.  

What harm can come by not making everyone answer a bunch of 
questions before they view a conference?  Selena?  What harm?

response 46 of 624:

Dec 25 07:33 UTC 1996

And something I almost forgot to mention: How much bandwidth
do you think we're going to have sucked up if we make the
Sex conference available to anyone on the Web?  How many thousands
of people are out there running searches on "sex" who would just
love to come to a place where they can read about the subject
from their browser without having to register?  This could be
worse for us than any of the "high bandwidth" personal pages that
we've dealt with before.  Need I remind everyone how many hits
the "Brandi" story got in the very limited time it was available?

response 48 of 624:

Dec 25 15:58 UTC 1996

Rob:  The web searchers won't index the conferences.  This has to do with the
way backtalk is implimented.  So, you won't find hords of people doing
searches on sex and finding the grex sexuality cf.  Unless, of course, someone
posts portions of the sexuality cf on a normal page.  Then they could get
indexed.