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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 177 responses total. |
ladyevil
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response 25 of 177:
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Sep 8 05:10 UTC 1996 |
As anonymous as grex allows through picospan currently is just fine. But, no
more. At least, not in Sexuality. That is my statement.
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nephi
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response 26 of 177:
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Sep 8 05:54 UTC 1996 |
I don't think that anyone will ever be allowed to post anonymously, Selena.
Is that what worries you?
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scg
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response 27 of 177:
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Sep 8 05:57 UTC 1996 |
I'm confused, Selena. For years, you have been by far the Grexer most
insistant about being able to be anonymous, to the point of extensively
flaming anybody who suggests that people maybe shouldn't be as anonymous as
you are. Then the moment there is the possability of anybody being able to
be just the slightest bit more anonymous than you are, you start having a big
fit about how awful such a thing would be. How do you explain the two,
seemingly inconsistant, positions?
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janc
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response 28 of 177:
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Sep 8 14:37 UTC 1996 |
Personally, I'd like to hear some reasons. It's hard to discuss a "statement"
like #25. It's not even obvious whether or not Selena understands what
exactly we are talking about (allowing users without accounts on Grex to read,
but not post to the conferences). So my only response to #25 is, "Why not?"
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brighn
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response 29 of 177:
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Sep 9 06:28 UTC 1996 |
I've been formulating a response to this issue myself.
I believe I've stated my reasons already, but Jan and Steve (primarily) have
persistently repeated the question, after stating my position explicitly.
I clearly can't speak for Selena, but my reasons, vaguely put:
When I enter an item, or post to one, I have a specific audience in mind.
Foolhardy as it is, I trust the majroity of the Grex community. There are
a few ruffians hither and thither, but for the most part, we're decent folk.
The same most likely could be said of the Web-surfers, but my experience has
been that there are more unsavory sorts wandering about on other systems...
m-net comes to mind, but is moot here since many if not most m-netters have
grex accounts anyway. *smirk* AT any rate, for whatever reasons, *I* don't
want people who haven't gone to the bother of of at least creating a Grex
account reading what I have to say... if and when I do, I go post it
elsewhere, too. Cal it paranoid. Call it elitest. Call it silly and
foolhardy and stubborn. Write obnoxious things about me on the walls of the
bathroom at NAC. But I trust Grexers, as a general policy, and I don't trust
most Web-surfers, as a general policy.
And say what you please about Selena, Steve, but level the same accusation
to me: I'm *not* being defensive about my own anonymity, because I'm one of
the least anonymous folks on Grex.
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janc
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response 30 of 177:
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Sep 9 16:30 UTC 1996 |
My position: I don't really care if anonymous access is allowed. It's easy
enough for people to create an account with web-newuser before reading the
conferences. If they do, Backtalk will work a little better for them, since
it will remember which things they have already seen, and they will be
slightly encouraged to join the conversation, since there will be a respond
box at the bottom of the screen. Quite likely it is a better strategy for
Grex to encourage users to take out accounts. It's the first step toward
sucking them into our community.
On the other hand, a few users might be so leary about taking out an account
that they would be more comfortable if they could look around a bit first.
On the whole though, I guess this harkens back to Marcus's old position that
newusers should be tossed right into the real conferencing environment, not
into a faked-up playpen. It's better if people get introduced to Grex via
a full-fledged interface that lets them post as well as read.
So I'm weakly inclined to disable the anonymous reading option here.
I'm not really convinced that Paul's anonymous reading arguments make sense,
but I think I may be on the same side of this as he is.
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brighn
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response 31 of 177:
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Sep 9 16:58 UTC 1996 |
If people want to see a sample of grex before joining up, create an advert
on the Web site that contains some smple items from various conferences.
That's bound to be more interesting for the curious than just thunking them
into confs (anonymously) anyhow.
I don't nned to make sense. I'm a moody artist. =}
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popcorn
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response 32 of 177:
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Sep 9 18:48 UTC 1996 |
Brighn, you may not be aware of the vast number of people who read the
conferences on Grex but never post anything. I don't remember the lurker
statistics (and don't think we have any current ones), but last I heard it
was something like 1 in 100 people who *read* a conference ever post anything
at all there. So if you have a conference with 50 people posting actively,
there are actually 5000 people reading it, 4950 of whom are anonymous lurkers.
(I try hard not to think too much about this, or I feel like I'm being stared
at under a microscope.)
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chelsea
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response 33 of 177:
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Sep 9 19:04 UTC 1996 |
I tend to thing of responding on Grex as being as public as
saying it though a megaphone on the diag. In ways, it even
more public because the words are archived and available
to more than those just walking by.
I'm often bowled over by how some folks share such intimate
information online. But I figure that's their business to
share as they will, whether that be informed commentary,
intimate insights, or inane (I talk because I'm bored)
chatter. But if anyone thinks they know who all is listening,
well, they are dreaming. Enjoy.
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remmers
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response 34 of 177:
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Sep 9 19:17 UTC 1996 |
Re #31: Putting up some sample items from various conferences
is pretty close to what I proposed not long ago -- i.e. making
the intro conference readable via the web. The intro conference
is designed to make a small sample of items available to
new users, so to me it seems like a small and innocuous
additional step to make it available to folks on the web to
read, but it's obvious that some people are uncomfortable with
even that small step. The reasons for this are not clear to me.
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remmers
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response 35 of 177:
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Sep 9 19:19 UTC 1996 |
(Mary's #33 slipped in. I agree that any perception of privacy
regarding responses that one enters in the public conferences
is indeed an illusion.)
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kerouac
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response 36 of 177:
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Sep 9 19:55 UTC 1996 |
In fact, I think the "Intro" conf has been a good idea and it should
be the first regular conf offered through Backtalk. Even in testing mode,
many users may get their first taste of grex through the web so it makes
sense for the intro conf to join Backtalk I and II as the confs
initially offered during the testing phase.
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robh
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response 37 of 177:
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Sep 9 21:14 UTC 1996 |
<robh wishes he had more recent items for the Intro conference, but
ah well>
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brighn
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response 38 of 177:
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Sep 10 01:08 UTC 1996 |
Re: Mary and Valerie's comments.
Once again, I'm told how many people read Grex and don't post.
Lawrence Technological University gave me two Bachelor degrees, both with high
honor.s
Michigan State University gave me a Master's degree.
Tell me, if neither of those esteemed institutions thought I was stupid, why
do y'all persist in that perception?
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scg
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response 39 of 177:
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Sep 10 04:07 UTC 1996 |
re 36
Richard -- The two test backtalk conferences are to test backtalk's
compatibility with Picospan. The reason that's being done with separate
conferences is so that if there turns out to be a but in Backtalk that does
bad things with Picospan items, it won't destroy an active conference. The
Intro conference will be added when we know it works. In the mean time, it
sure doesn't sound like a good idea to me to dump new users right into a test
conference that may start spewing nasty error messages, or worse, without much
warning.
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janc
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response 40 of 177:
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Sep 10 05:04 UTC 1996 |
Right. Picospan and Backtalk are both pretty well tested, but they have never
had to share a conference before. Backtalk is supposed to be polite about
it, but we weren't completely sure that Picospan and Backtalk wouldn't get
in a nasty squabble and tear the conference to shreads between then. So we
allowed Backtalk only into a couple worthless conferences. So far, things
look pretty good, but Backtalk won't be let loose on anything else until we
are completely sure it is cooperating with Picospan properly.
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popcorn
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response 41 of 177:
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Sep 10 05:06 UTC 1996 |
I'm not sure people are aware that the intro conference is made up of items
from all over Grex, linked to intro. Connecting Backtalk to the Intro
conference is like putting items from *all* of Grex's conferences on the web.
It's not a conference full of items-created-by-robh.
Re 38: It's not that I think you're stupid. It's that I've made the
mistake of feeling that only a small number of people were reading my
responses, only to later find out that all kinds of surprising people (eg.
my boss's boss at work, or random somewhat-scary people) were reading too.
I have a hard time agreeing with your premise that there's a difference
between "random strangers on the net" and "people who have run Grex's newuser
program".
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tsty
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response 42 of 177:
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Sep 10 11:10 UTC 1996 |
certainly udnerstand the need to test all the various functionalities
of a new cybertoy ... hadn't consided that necessary process back
in #23. hope ya make a ga-zillion $$$.
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chelsea
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response 43 of 177:
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Sep 10 12:55 UTC 1996 |
Actually, bright, I wasn't thinking of you when I made my post.
I was thinking of couple of other people who tend to be very
generous (and I mean that in a giving sense) and share a whole
lot about themselves here.
It's a pity universities don't teach students how they are not the
center of the universe.
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davel
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response 44 of 177:
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Sep 10 13:05 UTC 1996 |
"bright", heh ... given the context ...
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chelsea
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response 45 of 177:
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Sep 10 14:05 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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chelsea
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response 46 of 177:
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Sep 10 14:06 UTC 1996 |
That was a typo.
Believe it or not.
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brighn
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response 47 of 177:
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Sep 10 14:47 UTC 1996 |
Believed. I've had that typo before.
I was mostly responding to Valerie and lumped you in because your response
seemed relevant, Mary.
Anyway, I've had my say, now I'm just getting attacked, so I'm shutting up.
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birdlady
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response 48 of 177:
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Sep 10 16:58 UTC 1996 |
Well, *I'm* assuming that *brighn's* assuming that the comment about lurkers
was directed at him because it was almost immediately following his post about
anonymity (or Selena's...). I think, IMNSHO, that if brighn got two degrees
with honors from Lawrence and a masters from MSU that, no, he's not the center
of the universe, but he *does* emit more sunshine than certain people due to
his extent of knowledge. Yes, he ticks me off at least once a week, but
underneath it all he's a very intelligent creature. ;-}
<gets off soapbox>
I sense flames, so Brighn -- I'm sorry if you don't want me defending you.
And Mary, that was not an attack on you. It's just been building up for a
while and was directed at whomever may care to listen to what this bird has
to say.
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remmers
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response 49 of 177:
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Sep 10 17:17 UTC 1996 |
<remmers is not sure what is being directed at whom by whom for
what reasons, and so will go into lurk mode and sit this out>
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