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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 76 responses total. |
gregc
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response 25 of 76:
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Dec 19 12:44 UTC 1994 |
Steve, I don't see any problems with shutting grex down on a Sunday, and
leaving it down till Monday. First off, you are much more likely to get
help on a Sunday, but most important: If you really believe that Grex
can be shutdown, uncabled, packed-up, moved, recabled, and brought back
up in a day, with no problems, you are dreaming. You have to *plan* on
something going wrong, and allow time for it. Personally, I believe we
will be doing very well if we get Grex back up by Monday, I think Tuesday
is more likely.
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steve
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response 26 of 76:
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Dec 19 20:18 UTC 1994 |
Well, we moved M-Net's Altos from Mike Myers place to Dave Parks
house and got everything up and running a little ahead of schedule.
So it can be done.
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gregc
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response 27 of 76:
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Dec 20 00:13 UTC 1994 |
Didn't say it couldn't be done. I said you shouldn't base your plans on
the idea that everything will go right. That's overly optimistic and
foolish. It worked for M-net. So what? You got lucky. If you base your
plans on luck, *I'll* be putting my money with the other guy.
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steve
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response 28 of 76:
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Dec 20 00:33 UTC 1994 |
It isn't wise to trust anything to luck--didn't think I was stating
that in #26. But if people want, we can certainly make the move part of
things on Sunday. Since Ameritch most likely won't get things moved
over in time, we'll just be down a little longer (up to a day) than otherwise.
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cel
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response 29 of 76:
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Dec 20 00:40 UTC 1994 |
i hope you have planned to take a full backup.
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steve
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response 30 of 76:
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Dec 20 01:29 UTC 1994 |
Oh yes, one shall be made before the move. I learned about that one
a looong time ago.
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tsty
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response 31 of 76:
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Dec 20 04:33 UTC 1994 |
FULL?? excellant idea, full, complete, all of the above, etc.
About Bell - someone has already written down the order number,
I presume, AND ALSO - get a +name+ and a 24 phone number for a
supervisor (!!) to be "contacted in case." Trust me on this,
been there, done that.
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mdw
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response 32 of 76:
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Dec 20 06:25 UTC 1994 |
If I remember right, it took us less than a day to move grex INTO the
warehouse - and the only major hitch is that we rushed a little too much
at one point, and managed to bruise a ribbon cable. Granted, grex has
since grown, but the physical bulk of the equipment now in use is within
a factor of 2 of the size grex was when it moved in, & for that matter,
within a factor of 2 the size of m-net when it moved to Dave Park's
house. I think I've participated in 4 or 5 of these kinds of moves by
now; and while things never do go according to plan and they're a royal
pain, they aren't necessarily *that* bad. Steve's schedule is
optimistic, but not unduly so; a contingency plan is worthwhile, but in
this case, assuming a few people will need to work on it monday is
probably all that's necessary.
The actual move should consist of about the following 3 parts:
(a) shutting down the system & dismantling it (that's after the
backup, of course!)
After shutting down the system, the major part consists of
labelling all the cables, locking disk heads, and packing up
all the parts.
(b) moving all the pieces to the new site
mostly, that's a question of locating people & vehicles.
(c) putting it all back together and making it work.
This is the most likely place for delay, because it's here
that mistakes in part (a) and (b) show up. Generally speaking,
however, things will either go really well, or really badly.
Depending on what broke, and how long it takes to replace,
it could easily take longer than 2 days, but most of that
delay is likely to consist of toe-tapping not hard work.
There's one other step before (a) - site planning. That's things like
making sure there are enough electrical outlets, furniture to put things
on, and all that sort of thing.
In all the computer moves I've been involved with, the only things that
have ever really gone wrong are broken cables and mis-marked cables.
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davel
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response 33 of 76:
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Dec 20 16:11 UTC 1994 |
TWO full backups would be safer.
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srw
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response 34 of 76:
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Dec 21 04:17 UTC 1994 |
The place is already wired, so site planning can take place now
(without drywalls) or after Jan 8 (with drywalls) and everything that
we will need that is not currently at the warehouse can be moved in
after the 15th when the painting is finished.
It would be excellent if staff could purchase and install the new backup
hardware (tape) before the backups are needed.
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kentn
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response 35 of 76:
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Dec 21 04:23 UTC 1994 |
Do we have what we need in the way of tables, desks, shelves, or
whatever, so that the equipment has a place to rest? I think carl
and I talked briefly about getting a couple shelf tracks to screw to
the studs and then the modems could be "shelved" on the wall. It
sounded like there was a lack of "furniture" though.
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popcorn
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response 36 of 76:
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Dec 21 04:23 UTC 1994 |
Yea verily! (I read davel's comment about two backups and realized
that there probably aren't enough *hours* in the day to make two full
Grex backups -- especially if we're limited to the hours CE is open).
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popcorn
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response 37 of 76:
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Dec 21 04:23 UTC 1994 |
(#35 slipped in)
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mdw
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response 38 of 76:
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Dec 21 08:22 UTC 1994 |
I think it would be very important to make sure everything is off the
floor - there are lots of reasons, but the simplest disaster is the
possibility the drains might back up & leave a foot of water
*everywhere*
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mwarner
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response 39 of 76:
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Dec 21 08:37 UTC 1994 |
Speaking of floods, I wonder if there are water sources overhead, like
fire supression, or water lines, or drains. Not that much could be done,
but it might be something that could affect the layout at least as far as
avoiding a possible point source and likely drainage routes.
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rcurl
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response 40 of 76:
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Dec 21 15:51 UTC 1994 |
Sixteen inches. Install a floor water alarm too (that would be a benefit
to everyone in the building). Does anyone know the drainage configuration
- are sanitary and storm separate, and which the floor drain uses?
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danr
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response 41 of 76:
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Dec 21 17:04 UTC 1994 |
How are we going to know how much power we are using? Has any
provision been made in the wiring to measure the power on the
electrical circuit we are going to use?
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steve
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response 42 of 76:
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Dec 21 17:08 UTC 1994 |
We have our own line into the main box. It won't be hard to add
a power meter to it. That is something we haven't done however, namely
get such a meter. Rane, do you still have that Herbach & Radamen catalog
that made mention of them?
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cel
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response 43 of 76:
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Dec 21 18:09 UTC 1994 |
speaking of power, do you know whether you will need any power
filtration? power here in the OWS is not the cleanest or stablest.
you could probably pick up some autotransformers for cheap.
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rcurl
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response 44 of 76:
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Dec 21 18:42 UTC 1994 |
STeve, I still have the catalog, but they stopped sending new ones
about a year ago, so I don't know their status. I'll bring the last
one to the meeting tonight. Chuck raises a good point: what size
UPS would we need, to avoid power outage shutdowns?
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gregc
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response 45 of 76:
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Dec 21 20:10 UTC 1994 |
Power filtration and a UPS are 2 very different things. We already have
2 power conditioners, but a 2KW UPS, the size we would need, is very $$$$$.
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rcurl
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response 46 of 76:
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Dec 21 21:26 UTC 1994 |
Yes, I know. I just took the leap from a filter to a UPS. Hmmm, I
find about $400/KW retail. That's only $$$, not $$$$$. What priority
would that have?
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steve
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response 47 of 76:
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Dec 21 22:29 UTC 1994 |
Very high, if it turns out we need it. ;-) But, our ferro-resonant
power conditioners do one hell of a jood job os smoothing things out.
And, I'm sorry to say, the power at CE has *not* been good. Grex became
significantly more stable on the old hardware once we got the conditioners
in place. So I have no reason to believe that the power there is going
to be any worse than what we already have. I also asked Jim Knight about
power problems M-Net had while in that house, and I don't recall any
specific complaints from him about that. Also, I don't think that they
were using a power conditioner either. I'm sure I'll be corrected about
the M-Net items if I got those wrong.
So I'm not worried about the power. Frankly, the phone lines scare
me a lot more. Harder to deal with, too. We can get a power line monitor
and test the AC lines rather easily with a weeks monitoring: testing out
the phone lines is harder, and Ameritech is more more difficult to deal
with.
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scg
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response 48 of 76:
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Dec 21 22:35 UTC 1994 |
When we were tearing the old drywall down, I left the phone jacks
connected to the wires that were going into them. That wiring was
apparrently not disturbed while the new room was being built, so we now
have a lot of phone jacks in the room hanging from phone wires. Do we
want to rewire the phone lines, or is the existing wiring likely to be
good enough?
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steve
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response 49 of 76:
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Dec 21 22:52 UTC 1994 |
I'm planning on having to redo all the wiring from the network box
to the room itself. Using six-pair cable we should have four or less
cables into the room, unless the number of dialin lines gets huge.
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