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Grex > Coop13 > #77: Member Initiative: Do Nothing For Four Weeks. | |
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| 25 new of 56 responses total. |
other
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response 25 of 56:
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Jan 10 18:33 UTC 2004 |
1) This proposal is well intentioned, but I think that the delays
already built in to our voting process are sufficient to serve the
purpose for which it was proposed.
2) Because the posting-removal script only automates a process that
any user can freely engage in anyway, and it won't run without the user
being logged in to run it (correct?) depermitting the script or
otherwise prohibiting other similar scripts sets an unclear precedent
and may be worse than leaving it alone.
3) The people posting most vehemently in the aftermath of these events
are those with the least at stake. If you take those noises out of the
picture and reevaluate, you'd find that there is much concern being
expressed, but that the process is not proceeding any differently from
any other controversial matter we've dealt with in the past.
As far as I can tell, this was coming sooner or later anyway, and it
was bound to be a test of the ability of Grex to survive growing pains.
This is a process all small organizations go through as they grow, in
some form or other, and either they survive it and go on, or they don't
and something else comes along to fill the niche. You can't short
circuit this process and be doing Grex any favors. And changing the
rules of the game as this proposal does is just that.
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other
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response 26 of 56:
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Jan 10 18:37 UTC 2004 |
24: Thea reasons for that particular prohibition are distinctly
different.
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gelinas
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response 27 of 56:
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Jan 10 20:02 UTC 2004 |
Earlier, I expressed some support of this proposal. I've now reconsidered.
I think Mary and Eric have made good points, and I will have to get caught
up on the other items before the vote. The voting period is two weeks, as
I recall, which doesn't begin until after the discussion period. If that
is insufficient time, I can always vote to preserve the status quo ante. :)
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richard
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response 28 of 56:
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Jan 10 21:47 UTC 2004 |
de-permitting the script for valerie's program or otherwise disallowing
automated scribbling is a matter of avoiding reckless behaviour. Suppose
somebody goes on a flaming spree in Agora and insults everyone in site and
gets in fights and has people responding to him upset. And then he runs this
script and has all his posts automatically removed. This single handedly tears
up the conference and makes people with posts responding to him potentially
look bad because all of a sudden there is no context for their own heated
responses. Only allowing scribbling one message at a time makes removing so
many posts from any one conference impractical. It could still be done but
it would take so much time few would do it. It is a safety net and would
encourage users to have to go slowly and think more about scribbling post
after post.
These conferences are what Grex is all about. Staff should want them kept
intact as much as possible because without them, what is Grex? Those
conferences aren't just a collection of individual posts, they are WHOLES,
they are a collective work. This just brings up the whole copyright
debate again, but I think people who post here do so knowing that their
words are being in effect published, that they give permission to Grex to
spread their words over the web as part of Grex. And as such when you
scribble or delete posts, it affects more than just you. Grex should not
encourage mass scribbling by allowing it to be too convenient to do so
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naftee
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response 29 of 56:
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Jan 10 22:17 UTC 2004 |
But by only allowing a whole conference, you're also warranting the deletion
of conferences in their entirety. A contradiction on your behalf.
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jp2
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response 30 of 56:
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Jan 10 22:39 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
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gull
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response 31 of 56:
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Jan 10 23:32 UTC 2004 |
Re resp:28: How likely do you think your hypothetical situation is? And
how would it be any worse than someone just posting a bunch of flames in
agora and leaving them there? It's not as if that's never happened.
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gelinas
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response 32 of 56:
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Jan 10 23:55 UTC 2004 |
(I've seen such behaviour before. The 'victims' quickly 1) remove their
now-contextless comments and 2) learn to think before responding. Sometimes,
it takes a few iterations for 2) to occur.)
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gull
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response 33 of 56:
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Jan 11 01:10 UTC 2004 |
That doesn't seem like such a terrible outcome. ;>
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keesan
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response 34 of 56:
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Jan 11 01:17 UTC 2004 |
People can't scribble what other people quoted from their responses, so
perhaps we should all start each response by quoting the previous one?
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gelinas
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response 35 of 56:
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Jan 11 01:18 UTC 2004 |
The _real_ fun begins when people can edit their past responses: put up some
flame-bait, garner a few flames, then switch the bait to something completely
innocuous. The learning is a bit faster in those situations, I think.
'Twas this scenario that garnered so much opposition during the censored-log
debate.
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anderyn
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response 36 of 56:
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Jan 11 02:36 UTC 2004 |
Richard, I think that you see Grex in a very different light than I do. I
NEVER have thought of it as "publishing" my words. I felt that I was talking
in a limited medium that would eventually be erased and forgotten.
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krj
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response 37 of 56:
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Jan 11 03:06 UTC 2004 |
Hoo boy.
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richard
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response 38 of 56:
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Jan 11 03:51 UTC 2004 |
#37...but twila, how did you think that when grex doesn't erase its confs.
even when a conf is closed and archived, it is still kept read-only. The only
way whole confs would get erased under current setup is if grex is taken
down completely, or if there is some disastrous disk failure and there are
no backups to restore anything. Otherwise these conferences should be around
for anyone to read for years and years to come, as long as there is a grex.
I think that is part of JEP's concern actually, although I think the odds of
his son years from now finding his posts in some old archived grex conf to
be remote enough that I don't think his concern is all that warranted.
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jaklumen
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response 39 of 56:
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Jan 11 10:06 UTC 2004 |
resp:37 Yeah, I'll second that.
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tod
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response 40 of 56:
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Jan 11 15:00 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
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anderyn
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response 41 of 56:
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Jan 11 15:50 UTC 2004 |
I suppose that I should have known this, but I didn't. I really didn't know
that the old agoras weren't erased at some point. I did know that while the
agoras were active that they could be read by anyone who accessed grex, but
that's different from having them there forever and ever amen.
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willcome
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response 42 of 56:
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Jan 11 15:52 UTC 2004 |
Yeah.
God bless.
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naftee
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response 43 of 56:
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Jan 11 20:47 UTC 2004 |
Jesus lives!
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willcome
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response 44 of 56:
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Jan 11 20:59 UTC 2004 |
Re. 42: What is God?
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naftee
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response 45 of 56:
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Jan 11 23:17 UTC 2004 |
The Virgin Mary had three kids.
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happyboy
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response 46 of 56:
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Jan 12 01:12 UTC 2004 |
larry, curley, and moe!
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remmers
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response 47 of 56:
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Jan 19 15:46 UTC 2004 |
<donning voteadm hat...>
I've posted a summary of the rules regarding voting in item 75,
response 179 (resp:75,179). The earliest voting could begin,
should Colleen elect to bring it to a vote, is January 23.
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cmcgee
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response 48 of 56:
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Jan 19 15:51 UTC 2004 |
Actually, I don't think I'll be bringing this to a vote. We seem to have had
sufficient cooling off time, and I don't think anyone is feeling overwhelmed
and rushed any more.
Often it is useful to explicitly state that once of your choices is "Do
Nothing".
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albaugh
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response 49 of 56:
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Jan 19 18:49 UTC 2004 |
I'm afraid that *this* proposal was a non-starter from the beginning. Even
if it has passed, it would have no effect on the 2 proposals that were already
brough forth. And I think this was just a bad idea, period.
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