response 25 of 81:

Oct 6 23:55 UTC 2004

I kinda like the idea of setting some low bar that folks have to get 
over in order to vote in our elections and telnet out.  They don't 
have to have a degree in computer science, or belong to a church, or 
do volunteer work in their community.  They just have to find a 
checkbook and send in six bucks ($18 to qualify for voting) and some 
sort of ID.  We've even set the type of ID requirement to be so easy 
that if someone wanted to fake it, well, it wouldn't challenge even 
the less bright among us.  But they'd have to make some sort of 
effort to scam the system.  How easy is that?

Besides, you'd all have one less thing to bitch about.  Somehow, it 
feels right, to keep it easy for ya.

response 27 of 81:

Oct 7 02:15 UTC 2004

I think Grex should look for a different location.

HVCN's computer is located in some Washtenaw County Building.  I believe they
pay a merit fee, which is quite modest, but otherwise live there for free.
It's not ideal.  Staff can only access the machine during business hour.  If
HVCN goes down on friday night, it doesn't get a reboot until Monday morning.
But they get much better net connectivity than we do.

The library seems like the better deal than that.  Access would be better,
we could get phone lines, and one of Grex staffers is on their staff.  Yeah,
maybe we couldn't always get in there when we wanted to, but it's not like
we are always right on things now.  We get worse access, but much much better
connectivity and much much lower cost.  That's a bargain in my book.  We'll
be cutting costs and improving services.

To do this, we'd need to sell the idea to the Library board.  One of our
members is on their board.  We could probably get a number of locally
respectable people to speak in our favor.  It would take some work to
accomplish this.  It's not my kind of thing at all.  We need someone to
pick up this torch.

If we can't swing it with the library, then we should look around for other
institutions with good connectivity who would be willing to share some.  The
county and the library can't be the only plausible candidates around.

response 29 of 81:

Oct 7 02:35 UTC 2004

If someone among us wanted to pick up that ball, we'd need some information
first:

What is the reasonable minimum footprint for our equipment, either in shelf
space or floor space?

How many electrical circuits or outlets would we need?

How would we offer to handle running telephone lines or ethernet or power from
wherever it is nearest in the building to where it would have to be to meet
our needs?

What other things should someone know before attempting to move this notion
forward, even informally?

(I ask because I am in a position to speak to some people who might have
influence in this potential decision, and it would be nice to have some
specifics to offer.  I'm not referring to dpc, but other voices which may
carry weight with the Library board.)

response 31 of 81:

Oct 7 03:06 UTC 2004

The nextGrex computer is a full tower case.  I'd guess that is about 8" by
18" footprint, and maybe two feet tall.  It would be very nice if we could
keep a monitor and keyboard hooked to it, but that is not strictly necessary.
We'd probably also want to keep the terminal server.  This is about a foot
square and a few inches high.  Three modems.  That's probably the minimum.

Wouldn't mind tossing in space for Gryps.  That's a standard half tower.

If anyone wants to pursue the retroGrex project, we'd need quite a bit more
space.  Maybe two by three feet of floor space.  Could probably fit the
other two computers on top of it.

Assuming no retroGrex, everything could plug easily into one powerstrip.

At the library, we'd be in their machine room, and running power and network
would be trivial.  Other places - we'd be willing to offer help with wiring,
but no institution in it's right mind is going to let a bunch of unlicensed
amatures work on their wiring.

A more interesting question would be how much bandwidth Grex would consume.
I have no idea.  I'd actually feel most comfortable if they had some mechanism
to cap it.  I don't even know if such mechanisms exist.

The key to selling this, I think, is convincing people that Grex is worthy
of their charity.  That, much more than the technical issues, is going to be
the key.

Actually, I'd much prefer the job of selling HVCN to the library.  Not only
is the list of web sites hosted on HVCN really an impressive who's who of
local charitable and non-profit organizations, but they used to host the
library's web pages and now host the Ypsi library's web pages.  I think the
case for Grex as a valuable community service can be argued, but not as easily
as that.

response 33 of 81:

Oct 7 04:58 UTC 2004

maybe grex needs to consider getting rid of its remaining dialin lines, save
for one for staff and member use.  The need for dialin lines isnt there
anymore, since 99.9% of all users coming here presumably have other 'net
access and could telnet in or use backtalk.  Just keep one line, make access
to it a member perk, and for staff use.

response 35 of 81:

Oct 7 05:47 UTC 2004

You're welcome, naftee!

Thanks for thanking me!

response 37 of 81:

Oct 7 12:26 UTC 2004

I think we might be able to drop a line now with no ill effects, but it is
an important part of Grex's charitable mission, and there are quite a few
people who use them.

response 39 of 81:

Oct 7 13:44 UTC 2004

It does, though.  If you looked at the options listed for showing proof of
ID, you'd know that one of them's presenting it to the treasurer in person.
This CLEARLY is much easier for someone who's already part of the Ann Arbor
Grexist Community (AAGC) to do that it is for me to do.

It's xenophobic.

response 41 of 81:

Oct 7 14:01 UTC 2004

Re resp:32 - certainly bandwidth-capping mechanisms exist; whether any
facilities you're considering colocating in have them is another question.
It is possible to set it up yourselves with an additional computer (set up
as a firewall).  I haven't done it myself, but I understand the theory...

response 43 of 81:

Oct 7 14:54 UTC 2004

STILL, Mark.

response 45 of 81:

Oct 7 17:58 UTC 2004

re #23
 nothing changes.  Let's see tod make a proposal, if he's really serious about
 something other than complaining.
When I feel the debate has covered all the angles sufficiently and if there
is enough interest, I will consider making a proposal.  Do you have anything
to contribute other than calling us whiners?

response 47 of 81:

Oct 7 19:14 UTC 2004

Are copies of all member's ID in possession by the treasurer?

response 49 of 81:

Oct 7 19:48 UTC 2004

re #48
You can't do paypal sitting down?