response 26 of 62:

Feb 17 21:55 UTC 1998

Colleen slipped in.  

response 28 of 62:

Feb 18 09:37 UTC 1998

A separate mud machine would still consume:
        network bandwidth
        staff time
        electricity
There are some economies in scaling by having more than one machine;
they're maximized by having the same type of hardware and such on both
machines.  That means something like a used sparcstation 10 would be
attractive as a mud machine.  Security is important on the mud machine
same as on grex; we don't want people cracking root on the mud machine
and running a network sniffer.

So far as a password file goes, currently, that would be a big pain.
We're hoping to implement some sort of network authentiation scheme soon
(ie, kerberos); that would certainly facilitate doing something like
this.

response 30 of 62:

Feb 18 16:36 UTC 1998

At the "Respond or pass?" prompt, type 4 and hit Enter!  :-)

response 32 of 62:

Feb 20 01:13 UTC 1998

Possibly he has a pager that would prevent that?

response 34 of 62:

Feb 21 21:28 UTC 1998

   Not wanting to be an Old Fart, I've given this a lot of thought.
The more I've thought about it, the more I think we *could* do a
MUD, but there would have to be some restricitons on it that might
not make it worthwhile doing.

   First, it would need to be on a seperate machine.  I think something
like a 90MHz Pentium could run a small MUD.  Second, it wouldn't be
avilable from the net--local users only.  This would prevent massive
hordes of folks from using it, which is the main problem I see with
something like a MUD.  Third, it would be very good to see a group
of people get together and come up with the funds for the hardware
and operating costs (electricity) up front, or at least some chunk
of it, so as to offset the expenses.

   Unforunately, we really don't have the net bandwidth to do this--
no, we're not at capacity on the ISDN link yet, but we will be soon,
given the growth we've experienced in the last several months.
Adding something as addictive as a MUD would completely swamp us.

response 36 of 62:

Feb 22 05:14 UTC 1998

        I don't remember if this was mentioned earlier but what if the mud was
limited to members. the additional memberships may be enough to offset the
costs.

response 38 of 62:

Feb 22 18:42 UTC 1998

Eric, we sell very limited Internet services now.  If we make a MUD
a members-only feature, we are *not* making any promise about the
quality or reliability of that service.  People who become Grex members
know that this is a low-budget, volunteer-operated outfit.  We have
never guaranteed reliability/performance/whatever for any service,
whether sold or given away.
        However, having said that, I hope we don't do a MUD becaues
our present machine can't support it.  My concern, therefore, is
the *electronic* resources, not the *human* ones.

response 40 of 62:

Feb 22 23:33 UTC 1998

Given the personal interactions that are necessary to make a mud "fun" I dont
think we would have critical mass if we limited it to locals.  

Unless, of course, we see this as a marketing tool to get more locals to come
to Grex and hang out.  But that means we'd have to limit it to locals who are
interested in dialing in, right? Else we have the "local-verification"
problem.  

BTW I agree that muds are a good way to get folks into computer programming.
Even I have begun to figure out some stuff just so I can make good rooms on
a mud.  

response 42 of 62:

Mar 4 04:26 UTC 1998

I am sorry that after I made the suggestion at the staff meeting I 
then haven't had the time to come to coop and see this item. I will 
detail some of my thinking and how it came about.

I first started thinking of a MUD as another service that HVCN could 
offer. HVCN is a community network that I am the primary technical 
resource for. While the HVCN machine would support it, with some 
upgrading, the main problem is that I am not really a MUD person. Unlike 
some of you, I have no first-hand experience with MUDs. At the very 
least I would have to enlist some folk interested in this as staffers to 
help set it up and run it. So that made me think of Grex.

Yes, I know that Grex has turned away many requests from users who 
wanted to set up muds. I was definitely thinking that in the grex 
environment, the mud needs to be isolated so that resource usage can be 
controlled. Perhaps a separate machine with a throttled link. Certainly 
we would want to hold off on installing user services on other machines 
until we had a robust shared authentication system, like Kerberos.

This isn't about to happen any time soon, though. It's too ill-formed 
yet. 

Because it would be designed with the local community in mind, I am not 
seeing it as an attraction for the internet community so much as a local 
one. I have not thought of actually *limiting* access to locals, but 
rather just of making it interesting to locals.

This idea is really just a brainstorm, and I was interested in seeing 
how people might feel about it. I am disappointed it was attacked by 
people who don't see it as grex's mission. I hope that these comments 
may serve to reassure that what I had in mind is compatible with Grex's 
mission, but perhaps just different enough from what we are doing now to 
be a little scary.

I really am not anxious to see participation in it as a competition. I'd 
like to downplay that side of it. If that can't happen, then I'd like to 
look at something else that does downplay this (MUCK, perhaps?). I am 
not keen on having people fighting to become wizards and then as wizards 
constructing a universe that departs greatly from the original local 
content theme.

I am interested in finding a medium for people to express their 
creativity in community. I'd like it to be a special Ann Arbor thing. I 
may just be dreaming, but I wanted the opportunity to share it. So 
thanks for your comments and keep them coming. I hope we can brainstorm 
some more here.

response 44 of 62:

Mar 5 00:33 UTC 1998

idea:  the basis of the MUD could be a virtual map of Grex's hometown, Ann
Arbor, embellished and altered as necessary to maintain appropruate security
and interest...  hmmm.

response 46 of 62:

Mar 5 07:06 UTC 1998

well, there are all those flyer kiosks and staple-studded telephone poles
people could leave messages for each other on...

response 48 of 62:

Mar 6 04:37 UTC 1998

I think it would be easy to convert an out-of-the-box mud package to an Ann
Arbor fantasy setting.  In fact, that was what popped into my mind:  a bizarre
replication of Ann Arbor, complete with the (old) dungeon and the Pumpkin.
Hey, they dont call Ann Arbor "The Theme Park of the Sixties" without cause.
*grin*.