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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 50 responses total. |
cross
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response 25 of 50:
| 
Sep 7 19:04 UTC 2007 |
Regarding #24; I don't think we need to *eliminate* email right now, but if
we make it *opt-in* for those few that are interested in it, and make it clear
that it comes with almost no staff support, then that's a lot better than the
current situation.
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keesan
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response 26 of 50:
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Sep 7 20:03 UTC 2007 |
Thanks, Dan. You can refer new users to me for help with spam filtering.
I think they should be warned there is no system filter. Were they going to
get a choice between local-only and local-plus-outside mail?
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cross
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response 27 of 50:
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Sep 7 20:06 UTC 2007 |
Sindi, I don't think you understand: When I say `next to no staff support'
I don't mean for spam filtering, I mean *for email totally*. So if there's
an email problem, tough. If you lose your mail, tough. If you want some
enhancement to email, it ain't gonna happen. New users would have to jump
through some hoops to even get access to email.
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keesan
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response 28 of 50:
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Sep 7 20:12 UTC 2007 |
Thanks, cross, for helping with the mail problem as much as you have done.
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cmcgee
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response 29 of 50:
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Sep 7 20:29 UTC 2007 |
Sindi, if this proposal passes, new users will not get any email at all.
They will not be given a choice.
Socially validated users will have full access to email, with no staff
support. This might be a limited-time solution, since socially
validated users might still abuse email.
If Social validation does not stop users from abusing email, we have
some other choices.
We can stop offering email altogether. Sentiment is building rapidly for
this measure.
We might continue to offer email with the cyberspace.org domain name,
but do it through Gmail or something similar as Dan suggested. This
would be an ongoing financial drain on Grex.
We might make email available only to completely validated users.
We might come up with some other idea. None of them will involve staff
support for email or email problems.
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mcnally
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response 30 of 50:
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Sep 7 21:15 UTC 2007 |
I spent some time yesterday talking to a sales rep from Google about
e-mail outsourcing for my ISP, but part of the conversation was relevant
to Grex's situation, too.
It looks like in Grex's case it can be done through Gmail for free.
Web users can use a cyberspace.org-labelled web mail, command-line users
can use fetchmail and have it delivered to a local mail client.
Google prefers that most people use the web mail client because that's
how they earn the advertising revenue that supports the service, but it's
not a requirement.
If it can be worked out that easily and cheaply, why on earth don't we?
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keesan
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response 31 of 50:
|
Sep 7 21:28 UTC 2007 |
Please explain how this would work, in detail, maybe with a template that we
could edit (change 'user' to our own login, for instance).
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maus
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response 32 of 50:
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Sep 8 00:03 UTC 2007 |
Simple. The user would type "man fetchmail" on their local system and
would configure the fetchmail client to download the mail via the pop
protocol. The user could then do with it as they want. Since you are the
only one demanding this, why don't you do the leg-work and tell us?
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keesan
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response 33 of 50:
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Sep 8 01:14 UTC 2007 |
I am not going to use popmail under any name. I do not want to download
large attachments. Please stop suggesting this.
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cross
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response 34 of 50:
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Sep 8 01:21 UTC 2007 |
Then I guess you're out of luck.
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maus
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response 35 of 50:
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Sep 8 02:27 UTC 2007 |
You are SOL, then. If you want it so bad, do it yourself. I gave you
pointers to explanations of all the tools you would need. Quit whining,
quit demanding and either do for yourself or shut the fuck up.
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mcnally
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response 36 of 50:
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Sep 8 04:05 UTC 2007 |
OK, I know that there's a substantial provocation factor here,
but does that kind of response ever go anywhere useful?
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maus
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response 37 of 50:
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Sep 8 04:20 UTC 2007 |
Resp:36 Probably not.
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nharmon
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response 38 of 50:
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Sep 8 19:42 UTC 2007 |
Sindi, you need to stop being so hard-headed. First of all, running
fetchmail on Grex to download POPmail is going to download the
attachments to Grex and not your home computer. Thus it would be exactly
like having the e-mail delivered locally to grex. So please don't
automatically dismiss a solution at the first sound of "POP".
Here is an example .fetchmailrc file:
set postmaster "terrence"
set bouncemail
set properties ""
poll pop.gmail.com with proto POP3
user 'nharmon@cyberspace.org' there with password 'ilovesgmail' is
nharmon here
Basically, I would recommend you have your login script run fetchmail
when you log in, and then you could write a script to run it before
running pine and then alias "pine" to that script.
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nharmon
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response 39 of 50:
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Sep 8 19:45 UTC 2007 |
Mike, did you happen to discuss with the person from Google about how
accounts are set up? Obviously Grex would want a way of doing so
automatically, or with minimal staff effort. I suppose it would be a
great way of implementing an e-mail opt-in system. What about resetting
passwords and other such things?
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mcnally
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response 40 of 50:
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Sep 9 01:16 UTC 2007 |
I discussed that primarily in the context of outsourcing issues for
the ISP I work for and the answer may be different for the slightly
different program that Grex, as a non-profit, would fall under, but
in the case that I discussed with them there is a programming API
available to the organization to handle account creation and removal.
I suspect it can also deal with password resets, etc.
I don't, of course, have any direct experience with it.
I might be willing to investigate further next month and maybe set up
a test program for a couple of users if Grex is willing to register a
throwaway domain name that we can test with. I'm too busy this month
to do anything on such a project, however.
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keesan
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response 41 of 50:
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Sep 9 02:11 UTC 2007 |
nharmon, what would I change in the script other than the login and password?
What is "terrence".
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keesan
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response 42 of 50:
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Sep 9 02:19 UTC 2007 |
fetchmailconf is no longer complaining about a lack of python. Now it says
there is no module Tkinter.
I used the sample .fetchmailrc substituting my gmail address and password and
my grex login on the user line, and the connection failed while I was trying
to check with fetchmail -c -v (check verbose). Who/what is terrence?
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cmcgee
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response 43 of 50:
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Sep 9 02:30 UTC 2007 |
Sindi, why don't you consolidate your running commentary into the Agora
post where more people can find it and comment on it.
|
cmcgee
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response 44 of 50:
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Sep 9 02:30 UTC 2007 |
It would not be appropriate to link this one into Agora.
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nharmon
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response 45 of 50:
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Sep 9 03:39 UTC 2007 |
Sorry, "terrence" is a local login that should read "keesan". Not sure
why that is in my fetchmailrc. Strange.
Anyway, we may find a need to experiment with downloading mail from
gmail. If I get some time in the next couple of days I can see what I
can come up with in terms of a mini-howto or something.
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mcnally
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response 46 of 50:
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Sep 9 05:55 UTC 2007 |
re #41: By any chance did you read any of the Google search results I
pointed you towards? It might be easier to follow directions from
someone who has actually done this before than to ask nharmon, who would
have to figure it out first. Since other people have offered their
expertise why not use their information rather than request that he do
your work for you?
In general terms, you will probably need to:
a) enable POP mail retrieval for your Gmail account, which is not
turned on by default.
b) read Google's (or someone else's) directions on which ports and
what server name to use for incoming mail.
c) configure fetchmail accordingly.
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cmcgee
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response 47 of 50:
|
Sep 9 13:10 UTC 2007 |
Folks, PLEASE move this conversation.
|
remmers
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response 48 of 50:
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Sep 9 13:27 UTC 2007 |
Re #47: Good idea. This is the "welcome to the restarted coop
conference" item. People aren't going to know to look for email
discussion here. What's the best place to move the conversation to?
|
cmcgee
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response 49 of 50:
|
Sep 9 13:35 UTC 2007 |
There is a discussion thread on exactly this topic in Agora. I would
suggest linking THAT thread to garage. I'll copy and paste the relevant
entries here, and freeze this thread.
|
