response 25 of 196:

Oct 24 12:47 UTC 2003

"Ikons of authority"?  Never thought of them as that.  They are tools.
The cuffs are a tool.
the gun is a tool.
the flashlight is a tool.
The belt is a tool.

To those who wonder why I did it, need I remind you that it is a crime to
assault a person?  As an officer of the law, I could not let him just walk
away.

I could legally make a citizens arrest.  And in fact that is what occured.

But I could not use federally issued equipment to do so.  I still don't know
if I could use my own handcuffs to do so.

The cuffs allowed me to turn my attention away from him and deal with the
other problems with some certainty that neither he nor anyone else would
suffer any further harm.  There are a lot of people other than law enforcement
officers who are allowed to use handcuffs.  Store security officers are
allowed to if the person attempts to leave or is a threat to people in the
store.

I know what I did was right in any number of ways, an I do not regret that
I did it.  He needed help.  He wasn't going to get it on his own.  Now the
court has him getting straght, adn maybe my daughter and grandson are safer
because of it.  Even Brad is safer because of it.  And as a whole, except for
his driving, society is safer because of it.

What I have found out is that the law is a curious and very malleable thing.
What may be right may not be legal, what may be legal in one sense may not
in another.  Law enforcement officer have a lot of leeway, and a lot of
restictions.  

Customs officers have a lot of power wher they work, but it gets tricky when
they get home.

response 27 of 196:

Oct 24 14:08 UTC 2003

I have a feeling that this incident isnt really the reason for the 
firing. 

I will say this, I dont think Bruce's actions really showed good 
judgement. But I dont think he should have been fired just because of 
that one particular incident. However, I find it hard to believe that 
he was. Sometimes management use tangible things like this incident to 
fire someone for completely different reasons. In this case, it doesnt 
even sound like they gave a reason. None of us here have any chance of 
getting the real story. Unfortunately, that includes Bruce who probably 
really wants to know what was going through the manager's heads. 

response 31 of 196:

Oct 24 18:51 UTC 2003

I'd agree with your statement about "taking the law into their own hands" if
bru had, say, roughed up the guy.  But all he did is detain him until the
police got there.  That strikes me as a perfectly reasonable thing to do,
and in fact I think it shows a certain amount of restraint.  A lot of
fathers probably would have punched the guy in the nose.

response 33 of 196:

Oct 24 19:47 UTC 2003

Rane, I refer you to the relevant portion of Bruce's story again:

>         As her boyfriend attempted to escape the scene, he ran directly 
> into me.  I did not know what had happened.  I did know after looking  
> into his face that he was extremely upset, was in effect in a panic and  
> not fully in control of his faculties.  I did not know the reason for  
> this, if he was upset because he had ruined his relationship, or that I  
> was going to hurt him, or that the police were going to arrest him.  I  
> did believe that I could not let him leave. 
>         We struggled, we went to the floor, and while people were  
> yelling at me that he had assaulted my daughter, I decided to use my  
> handcuffs (issued by the federal government) to restrain him until the  
> police got here.

Under those circumstances, Bruce's actions were quite reasonable.  He 
made a judgement call with which you obviously disagree, but unless 
you've been faced with the purported perpetrator of violence against one 
of your loved ones and reacted with the same calm demeanor with which you 
argue Bruce's error, I think your criticism of his decision is without 
foundation.  I agree with you in theory, but this is one of those cases 
in which the dividing line between theory and practice will be marked and 
distinct so long as humans remain human.

response 35 of 196:

Oct 24 19:49 UTC 2003

By the way, the above refers to the decision to restrain the alleged 
assailant, NOT the decision to use the handcuffs in the process.  Those 
are two separate decisions, with separate logic and considerations, and 
it is only the latter for which Bruce's job is at stake.
 (Dan slipped in)

response 41 of 196:

Oct 26 00:26 UTC 2003

I hope this situation comes out all right for Bruce.  I don't see any 
reason to believe he did anything worthy of firing.

response 45 of 196:

Oct 27 00:30 UTC 2003

The scene was such that I still don't know if anyone could have made a better
decision. Rhiannon had two of her friends over, we were all in the living room
talking and Brad called several times, saying he wanted to come over and see
her. Her one friend took the phone after he'd called one too many times and
hung up on him. Brad came to the door, and asked Rhiannon to go down to the
basement to talk to him in private. I stayed in teh living room with the
friends and Griffin. Bruce went upstairs to do something for work the next
day. Next thing I knew, Rhiannon was screaming, Brad was yelling, I heard a
thump, and the guests were running towards the stairs, yelling. Bruce ran
downstairs and into Brad, who'd run out and in again. The male friend was
cursing and and saying he'd beat Brad up. In the situation, I think it was
the best way to stop things from getting worse. At least, it didn't seem
unreasonable at the time. 

About my work, well, I think he should have been allowed to come in and pick
me up, gun or no gun, but I was polite and asked permission. 

response 47 of 196:

Oct 27 14:37 UTC 2003

The friends were a couple, a guy and a girl. She's known them for about five
years. They're friends of mine too. They havne't ever felt comfortable being
named on Grex afaik, so I don't. Simple as that. 

response 49 of 196:

Oct 27 15:51 UTC 2003

I dont believe even cops have a right to wear guns in private spaces if 
the owners or managers of those private spaces dont want them to. For 
instance, you would not be allowed into my home with a gun and that is 
perfectly legal.