response 26 of 84:

Jun 20 00:54 UTC 1995

As far as I know, cinder blocks and concrete blocks are different.  
We had cinder blocks in our house- real porous, rough blocks.  Concrete
blocks are not as porous and are much heavier.  I've seen them in basements,
but not in the house where I grew up.  I'm 26

response 28 of 84:

Jun 20 04:39 UTC 1995

Cinder blocks, 26

response 30 of 84:

Jun 20 12:04 UTC 1995

re 20: Webster's New Collegiate, 1973/1979

response 32 of 84:

Jun 20 14:55 UTC 1995

cement blocks. While I was growing up, my dad basically re-did the 
entire house, adding a second floor and a basement, and many of
the forts that my brother and I would build were with those sorts
of blocks, until dad needed them, of course.

19

response 34 of 84:

Jun 20 16:13 UTC 1995

This is interesting. On Grex I get 7 people saying concrete and 18 saying
cinder. I also asked a couple of offline people and got 2 and 3. That
gives a total of 9 for concrete and 21 for cinder. 70% to 30%.

The reason I was asking this question stems from a recent incident. I was
helping a friend do some wiring in his basement. I own one of those nail
guns that use 22caliber blank cartridges to shoot special hardened nails into
concrete. The cartridges come in 4 different power levels. When I looked up
in the chart which load to use for this job, the chart had separate listings
for "cinder block" and "concrete block". Now, I had always used the 2 terms
interchangably, but had always wondered why there was 2 different names for
the same thing.(My friend also asked "What's the difference?" at that time
too.) However, this chart tended to suggest that they were NOT, in fact, the
same thing. Since it listed "cinder block" as the lowest power cartridge,
and "concrete block" as the next to highest cartridge, this tended to suggest
that the former was much softer than the latter.

I wondered if maybe, many years ago, there was a kind of block that was
possibly made of compressed cinders, or something like that, and had been
replaced by concrete blocks, but the name had stuck.

So I called my father, who is an engineer and has more than a fair amount of
experience with construction and materials(and who I call all the time with
bizarre questions like this. Drives him nuts.), and asked him if there was
any difference between the two. He replied that a concrete block is made from
traditional concrete, a mix of cement and silica based sand as the agregate,
but old cinder blocks were made of a concrete that was a mix of cement and
ground up cinders as the agregate. The cinders were the by product of burnt
coal from power plants, furnaces, etc. Cinder based concrete is significantly
weaker than sand based concrete. However, he remarked that he hadn't seen
a real "cinder block" sold in over 30 years! I mentioned that people seem
to use the 2 terms interchangably. He replied: "Only if they're idiots!".
I thought this was an unfair judgement becuase I was sure that most people I
knew, who may not be as closely associated with construction work as he is,
still tended to use the old term.

(This tends to be supported by the fact that of the few people who replied
"concrete blocks", a fair number of them also mentioned having some sort
of construction experience or lived with someone who did.)

I still hear people using phrases like: "Yeah, fred's had his old Ford up on
cinder blocks for 6 months now." and stuff like that. I wanted to see just
how common this was, and whether it was just older people who used it or
whether it had been passed along to younger people. Although, alot of new
houses have solid concrete basements. It's possible some of the younger people
here may never have seen *either*!

I think it's possible here that while "concrete block" can mean "any shape
of building block that is made out of concrete" and there are many different
sizes and shapes, the term "cinder block" has come to be a generic term for
that particular size and shape of block that is used to build standard
basement walls, regardless of the material it is made of.

Note, I'm not saying that it's any kind of *official* designation, just that
it seems to have become the defacto name for that *particular* item in most
peoples minds. Kind of like the word "kleenex".

I started thinking about other places where old terms are used for new things.
Where the new thing has completely replaced the old thing, but the old name is
still used. For example:

1.) Footballs refered to as "pig skin".
2.) Classical guitars as having "gut" strings, even though strings are
    made of nylon these days.
3.) "glove compartment" of a car. Who keeps gloves in those things?
4.) Since we're talking about construction materials. How about a 2x4. Do
    you know how *long* it's been since those boards were really 2" by 4" ?
    Although this one probably doesn't count becuase 2x4 has come to mean a
    a particular size range of board and not it's exact size.
5.) Those big heavy machines with 6' wide metal drum wheels for rolling
    flat asphalt after it's been poured, are still commonly called "Steam
    Rollers" even though they havn't been steam powered in almost a century.
6.) In a similar vein, in this day of digital clocks, I've heard that some
    younger people don't know what you're talking about when you say it's
    "a quarter past 6", or "a quarter till 8".

Anybody think of others?

(BTW, maybe this should be linked to the language conference.)

response 36 of 84:

Jun 20 18:27 UTC 1995

Well, before we get entirely away from "blocks": the following terminology
shows up in the yellow pages: concrete (blocks=b); cement b; lightweight
b; Lightcrete b. Aggregates other than sand and gravel, which give special
properties to the blocks, generally cost more. Having narrower markets,
such products are more often given product names (trademarks). "Cinder"
blocks seem to have fallen by the wayside in favor of names like
Lightcrete", Aerocrete", "Gritcrete", etc. Blocks made with real *cinder*
aggregate are now rare because *cinder* is not a well standardized
material, and the product blocks would not be as consistent as blocks from
aggregates with more accurately defined properties. In addition, with the
invention of block making machinery by Besser, local materials are more
often used to reduce transportation costs, and "cinders" are becoming rare
locally, with the reduced use of coal in communities. 

response 38 of 84:

Jun 20 20:08 UTC 1995

Yes! Thanks John, "dialing a phone" was exactly the kind of thing I was
looking for.

response 40 of 84:

Jun 21 00:05 UTC 1995

Ice box
Record player

response 42 of 84:

Jun 21 14:35 UTC 1995

I was talking about this with a friend. She suggested "record player".
I don't see it. Many people still own record players on which they play 
records. It didn't translate across to the new media. When people talk 
about CD's that say "CD", when they're talking about CD players they
say "CD player". I've never hear anyone refer to a CD player as a
"record player".

"ice box" sorta works. Yes, my refridgerator has ice in the freezer that
it makes, but "ice box" was what the old insulated cabinets that were
*cooled* by a block of ice were called. I occasionally still hear that one.

Hmm, thinking about "record player" some more. Right now, we're in a
transitory period in which real vinyl records and record players exist
at the same time as CD's and CD players. I'm wondering what will happen in
20 years when vinyl records and record players are a thing of the past,
except for antiques owned by old farts and collectors. Will people drop
the "CD" name and just goback to calling them "records" and "record players"?
Interesting, we'll have to see......

response 44 of 84:

Jun 21 15:25 UTC 1995

A "standard" 2x4 is 1.5 inches by 3.5 inches.  I don't think they
were ever 2" by 4" -- that size is the rough-cut size, before
it is planed down and smoothed out.

response 46 of 84:

Jun 21 16:58 UTC 1995

  I dunno anything about the industry, but it seems to me the really
obvious reason is that dealing with numbers like 0.75, 1.5, and 3.5
would make the math easier than numbers like 0.78125, 1.625, and
3.625.  I think most people would have a lot easier time adding and
multiplying the shorter numbers with calculators or in their heads.

response 48 of 84:

Jun 21 17:56 UTC 1995

Yes, I was going to mention that. I remember using lumber when it was
X and 5/8". Ie: a 2x4 was 1-5/8"x3-5/8", a 2x8 was 1-5/8"x7-5/8", etc.

Well, forgetting about making the math easier, you have to consider 2 things:
1.) It may have been done to conserve wood. Smaller board, more lumber.
2.) But it also reduces the strength of the board, so all those books full of
    tables of beam strength and load bearing capability, have to be thrown
    out. Not to mention the accumulated experience in alot of carpenters
    heads. Suddenly everything they memorized for years was now wrong.

And I also tihink this wasn't the first time this was done. I think really
old boards were 1-3/4"x3-3/4".