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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 57 responses total. |
rcurl
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response 25 of 57:
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Jul 25 18:24 UTC 1994 |
Some one person had to have said/written the phrase *first*, and he
or she would have drawn Flynn from some prior knowledge. If it is just
a rhyme, why don't we have independent origins, so that someplaces its
In like Flynn, and other places its In like Quinn? (I can understand
why it isn't In like Sin.)
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kentn
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response 26 of 57:
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Jul 25 20:35 UTC 1994 |
Some things are lost in the mists of time...the world may never know.
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brighn
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response 27 of 57:
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Jul 25 22:55 UTC 1994 |
Re; Finns in mythology. The only reference I can find in maybe half
a dozen major works on my shelf is in R. J. Stewart's Celtic Gods,
Celtic goddess, p. 80: "Finn MacCumhaill destroyed serpents throughout
the land of Ireland, each having various attributes of fire and water."
Given that serpents are regularly identified with Druidic and Celtic
culture ('twas Druids, not snakes, that Patrick ran out of Ireland),
this might suggest that Finn had a mischievous Loki-like reputation.
On the other hand, what it has to do with getting into places easily,
I'm not sure. My own inclination would be to suggest that Finn/Flynn,
being a stereotypical Irish name, is used to suggest that the Irish
are being stereotypically labelled as connivers and lockbreakers
(i.e., in like Flynn = in like an Irishman). Given the traditional
relationship between the Irish and the AngloSaxons, such a stereotyping
is hardly surprising. (Ethnic slurs are hardly rare in slang, especially
when it comes to skinflinting: going Dutch, welshing, jewing, gypping,
French letters (condoms), etc.). This seems reasonable to me, but it
is just a guess.
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greenops
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response 28 of 57:
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Jul 26 04:10 UTC 1994 |
Re: Kent's question about what constitutes a win, I would
opt for origin (where one can be obtained). If two or more
submit different origins, the winners can play Chip 'n' Dale
to decide who gets to challenge. Sound reasonable?
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kentn
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response 29 of 57:
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Jul 26 04:15 UTC 1994 |
Sure...if we can ever find an origin with acceptable documentation.
So many slang expressions are of unknown origin, or the best we can
do is say when the earliest known *published* use of the slang
term took place (which is most likely not the earliest spoken usage).
In any event, it's fun to speculate about slang...
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mwarner
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response 30 of 57:
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Jul 26 05:11 UTC 1994 |
I just saw an article in the FreeP about "Volume I of the Random House
Historical Dictionary of American Slang" ($50)
1,006 pages covering letters A-G. It was based on research by J.J.
Lighter, who teaches linguistics, English and American studies at the
University of Tennessee...
"Carl Sandburg called slang "a language that rolls up its sleeves, spits
on its hands and goes to work,", while Ambrose Bierce disdained it as
"the grunt of the human hog (Pignoramus intolerabilis)." "
I understand Ambrose Bierce was quite a writer. I like that slangy
scientific term he uses.
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arwen
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response 31 of 57:
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Jul 27 18:38 UTC 1994 |
Thank you for putting that in here! I will have to adopt it and use it.
I wish $50 didn't look like $5000 to me. That sounds like a great
reference.
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mwarner
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response 32 of 57:
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Jul 27 18:54 UTC 1994 |
Note that it is only for letters A-G! The other 2 volumes are due in
future years, the next being 1996 I believe. The main reason for this is
that it appears that one person is doing most of the work.
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brighn
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response 33 of 57:
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Jul 27 22:55 UTC 1994 |
One note of caution: slang dictionaries become woefully outofdate very
quickly, so by the time vol. 3 is published, vol. 1 will already be passe.
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kentn
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response 34 of 57:
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Jul 27 23:02 UTC 1994 |
True, sort of...for the 3 vol set in question the big problem will
be that the vols will be "out of sync". My "old" Dict. of Amer. Slang
still fills the bill quite handily as most of the words and expressions
in it are still used and the out-of-date ones still cropup in older
books. You'd be surprised how long some of the old standbys have been
around (the Civil War seemed to generate quite a few slang expressions,
as did World Wars I and II, for example).
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brighn
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response 35 of 57:
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Jul 29 13:57 UTC 1994 |
I dig. That's 23 skidoo, so I'm down on it.
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davel
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response 36 of 57:
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Jul 30 13:36 UTC 1994 |
The current issue of _Smithsonian_, in their back-page semi-humor thing,
has a discussion of some slang items I'd never heard of. The one at the
center is that, for some years, "Ameche" was common (in some quarters) as
a term for telephone, & why. But it also touches on Marilyn Monroe,
Mae West, and the verb "to Bogart". Cute article ...
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rcurl
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response 37 of 57:
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Jul 30 18:15 UTC 1994 |
This Item, Slang, has been linked here from the books conference.
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robh
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response 38 of 57:
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Jul 31 02:32 UTC 1994 |
Thanks, Rane, since I think I have an answer to the "in like Flynn"
question of several responses ago...
As I heard it, and sadly I have noe reference to cite, the Flynn
in question is none other than Errol Flynn, film star of the early
20th century. He was accused of some sexual naughtiness - sorry,
don't know the details - and the phrase "I was in like Flynn" came to
mean "I has sex with her." Or something like that.
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brighn
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response 39 of 57:
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Jul 31 23:14 UTC 1994 |
That strikes me as a wonderfully clever folk etymology, albeit certainly
possible (improbable, but possible). I'd be more inclined to believe the
reference was to Flynn's swashbuckling screen persona. Problems with the
etymology: (a) there is (on my reading) no implication of sexual prowess
in the current usage and (b) it would not explain why some speakers use
"Finn". A similar etymology might involve Huck Finn's notorious
cleverness, and perhaps this confusion led to the two phrases.
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gracel
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response 40 of 57:
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Aug 18 01:51 UTC 1994 |
Does anyone have insights into the origin of the expression
"hold your mouth right"? (As, notably, an explanation of why
something works inconsistently -- e.g., I couldn't get the drip pan
to go in properly at first because I didn't hold my mouth right)
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arwen
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response 41 of 57:
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Aug 20 00:57 UTC 1994 |
Grace...the only thing that comes to mind is the way people hold
their tongues when they are concentrating.
Just a wild-a**ed guess.
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kentn
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response 42 of 57:
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Aug 20 05:09 UTC 1994 |
That would be my onager guess, also.
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rcurl
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response 43 of 57:
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Aug 20 05:51 UTC 1994 |
I had never heard the expresssion, until #40. Among whom is it in frequent
use?
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vegas
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response 44 of 57:
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Aug 20 08:08 UTC 1994 |
I'm *sure* it's a musician's term... ;')
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arwen
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response 45 of 57:
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Aug 20 20:56 UTC 1994 |
kentn.....onager? Very clever fellow thou art!
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gracel
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response 46 of 57:
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Aug 22 01:48 UTC 1994 |
My father uses the expression fairly often, when appropriate.
(Native Hoosier, they moved around a lot before settling in
southern Illinois) I had assumed it was just his private joke,
but the owner of the house next door happened to say it to me
last week. Dave somehow got the impression that it was from
an old comic strip or something like that.
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davel
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response 47 of 57:
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Aug 22 10:32 UTC 1994 |
I had seen it in a cartoon, nothing that would be quoted, & assumed that
the cartoonist had made it up on the spot. Naturally I was surprised to
hear others use the expression.
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arwen
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response 48 of 57:
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Aug 22 22:00 UTC 1994 |
perhaps the owner of the house next door (re:46) heard it from
your dad?
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rcurl
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response 49 of 57:
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Aug 23 04:11 UTC 1994 |
The more I hear (read) the expression, the more it sounds like a
stand-up-comic line (where it could be demonstrated). Who might it
have been?
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