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Grex > Coop8 > #52: Adding .yeswrite and .nowrite to the write program | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 315 responses total. |
brighn
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response 225 of 315:
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Jul 10 19:38 UTC 1996 |
Hey, since we're getting so damnably social, kids, how about chain
letters and advertisements? I miss those mass mailing days... boy
did I evber feel connected with the rest of Grex!
And no unverified users... everybody has to give their full address,
phone number, birth signs, and favorite color.
Wait! Everyone *has* to have a Web page through Grex
that has their picture and a little audio file where they
introduce themselves~!
And if I stop by anyone's house, anyone at all, I'm
entitled to free beer and potato chips! Coolio!
Wait, no! That won't be necessary, because...
all the Grexers will be moving onto a commune together!
How's *that* for being social, Toasty? We''ll live together
and work together on a self-sufficient plot of land in Montana,
loving each other and the Earth?
*brighn gets all misty-eyed at the thought*
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kerouac
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response 226 of 315:
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Jul 10 20:07 UTC 1996 |
I'm still not convinced the need is necessary for .yes/.no anyway
As far as I can tell, the only person who has really complained of being
harassed is Jenna. I think the wording of the board's motion is or was
inadequate. It is not enough to simply "not object" to a code change
changes simply because a majority of folks have "no objection", as opposed
to there being a genuine need or demand voiced by many people for such a
change.
Such a demand did not exsist. There wre not large numbers of people demanding
this change be attempted. "Not Objecting" is not good enough. The board
should never take such a passive approach to such changes.
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bjorn
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response 227 of 315:
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Jul 10 20:27 UTC 1996 |
I think that as long as were talking about the "anitsosial" aspect of this,
we might as well konsider where the true antisocial aspekt komes into play.
The motives of those who hail us are not immediately known to us, korrect?
But when we do find out what they want, the whole perpose of the hailing was
meant to be either 'thinking' (and I use the term loosely) with one's
genitallia, or antisosial in the first plase. There are ekseptions to this,
of kourse, helper people being one and newbies rekwiring help and asking it
of people who seem to know their way around Grex.
I was trying to use the fasade of getting rid of things as reverse pyskology,
but it appearantly didn't work. Who then is more antisosial, the people who
refuse hailing from sertain others, or those who hail to harrass?
I yield my time to the chair.
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brighn
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response 228 of 315:
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Jul 10 23:43 UTC 1996 |
I've complained.
Selena's complained.
Jenna's complained.
Val's complained.
Jiffer, Cali, others too numerous to recall have complained.
They don't complain *here* Richard because they don't read this
conference, and because Staff is generally dismissive that such things
are actual problems. Reread this item and you'll find several
major baffers either implying or out and out saying that csex/rabbit
harassmassment isn't a problem on this board.
(harassmassment? oh the words that Lag generates =} )
If the general attitude of the management is that a behavior isn't
a problem, categorically, most people will not bother to complain.
They'll just sit in the staff longue bitching to each other.
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davel
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response 229 of 315:
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Jul 11 01:29 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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jenna
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response 230 of 315:
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Jul 11 06:48 UTC 1996 |
I'm here in this item for two reasons. I have a problem
with this behaviour from people and would like yes/nowrites as a
solution and two because no one else was doing it despite complaintas.
For crying out loud, I've heard phenix complain and he's a GUY.
(they don't believe him apparently)... I only came in here because
I heard people here were skeptical. Usually I like to make my case
and complainats privately. I won't any more though, because this seems
to have much more of an affect than quiet reason... (repetitiveness
does anyway). I am NOT the only one having a problem with this.
In fact, my problems with this is minimal compared to some people's.
I'm trying to make a case for all the people I've heard as well
as myself. I think I've done that fairly well, hence I haven't
been as stuboorn about posting every name all the time no matter what
I had to drop to do it anymore. It seems to me the case is
pretty much over, even if the arguement goes n
(and Kerouac, you're being a twit. I'm sorry if no one else
can tell you this. Think a little, would you?)
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bjorn
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response 231 of 315:
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Jul 11 12:25 UTC 1996 |
Re #230: I agree and see your points wholeheartedly.
Another suggestion for removing the antisosial aspekt of the RTC programs:
We should not allow messages to kome through to other people if those people
refuse to be hailed. More often than not, the antisosial aspekt shows through
in the RTC programs where it doesn't matter if the sekond party aksepts the
hailing or not!!
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srw
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response 232 of 315:
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Jul 12 04:28 UTC 1996 |
There were also a lot of complaints voiced at the last board meeting from
people who are not posting in this item at the moment. In fact there seem to
me to be a lot more people complaining that we don't have a yes/no/write
feature than there are people complaining that it would be antisocial to do
so.
I, for one, thing it would not be antisocial, as it would allow people to turn
on some perms instead of leaving them all off. I don't see the need for people
to be so social that they must accept random comments from strangers.
That's why I think this is a good idea. I'm glad the board said it would not
stand in the way of its implementation.
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tsty
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response 233 of 315:
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Jul 12 09:26 UTC 1996 |
as i've stedfastly maintained, the idea of having a .nowrite (perhaps
with a 6-7 loginid limit) is a good idea on an as-requested basis.
jenna wants one, jenna gets one. phenix also wants a .nowrite file,
phenix gets one. if i want one, or scg wants one; we ask, we get. fine.
about a .yeswrite though? uh-uh. that strangles all for the uncivilized
behaviour of a few - not a good idea. the .nowrite strangles the specific
uncivilized few without affecting the rest of us - a good idea.
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adbarr
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response 234 of 315:
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Jul 12 12:20 UTC 1996 |
I don't see this as a strangle. A limitation, yes. But if some individual
really wants to communicate with someone else real-time they can
email the intended recipient and negotiate that privilege individually. What
is so bad about that? Grex is not a 911 service. The right to be let alone
is precious.
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bjorn
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response 235 of 315:
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Jul 12 12:59 UTC 1996 |
Dropping my letter rearrangemenr recipe for the moment:
I believe that adbarr sees .yeswrite in a more logical light. I'd much rather
have EVERYBODY else blocked out than a select few. And if *I* wanted to talk
to someone who was not in my .yeswrite I would E-mail and negotiate. I've
had few problems that are actually antisocial, which is not to say I've none.
My problem has been more that people don't always check what people are doing
before they initiate an RTC hailing - including those that still get typed
even if I refuse to accept the hailing. I completely agree that we should
have the right to our privacy.
Currently, I have my messages set so that all types of hailings are
refused immediately. When people who don't have ulterior motives for talking
to me RTC wish to, they send me E-mail and ask me to turn my messages on for
a while. Normally I do so, but if I've noticed a loginid I find a little or
a lot less reputable on, I don't - I simply hail the other person and explain
the situation.
I like to be alone - not to say that I don't like groups, but it's just
that I prefer to be alone when I'm doing something on Grex and in certain
other not-withstanding circumstances. Ever since my cyber-war with skeez
began and fell, I have been under tsty's definition, likely the most
'antisocial' person on Grex. Let me awaken you to the fact that the war was
more antisocial than it is to refuse being hailed.
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selena
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response 236 of 315:
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Jul 13 05:44 UTC 1996 |
How is .yeswrite worse than !mesg n, tsty?
!mesg n is what I have to use every time it gets bad, and then NO one can
talk to me.. So, your point is..?
I mean, it seems black and white don't offend you, and neither does light
grey.. why not dark grey? we already HAVE black.
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bjorn
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response 237 of 315:
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Jul 13 13:07 UTC 1996 |
Exactly.
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mdw
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response 238 of 315:
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Jul 14 04:38 UTC 1996 |
Draven in #152 claims m-net's staff has "always" been on a short leash.
Actually, that's not true. *Way* back, towards the beginning, m-net
staff had a lot more freedom, in some ways more freedom than staff on
grex have today. *I* know this, because I was on m-net staff at that
very beginning. Several other grex staff were on at the same time.
Actually, though, that's only really better evidence for draven's
thesis.
I'll take robh's shrimp and avocado. However, robh is welcome to all
the watermelon he wants.
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jenna
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response 239 of 315:
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Jul 14 04:50 UTC 1996 |
tsty -- i think i've said this before. you are overlooking something:
most of the people who ntalk/chat/write me have never done it before
and won't again. at least 2/3rds are NOT repeat offenders. I thin it's
a pina in the ass to get n-talked and have your cfing screwed up
while you go and edit your file for someone who's never ging to do it again.
/nowrites make ENEMIES. .yeswrites maintain A link with the rest of
the world instead of completely cutting yourself off!
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adbarr
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response 240 of 315:
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Jul 14 11:27 UTC 1996 |
But you are not _completely_ cutting yourself off in any case, are you?
People can still contact you, but in a way that leaves you in control
of what you are doing and when you wish to access the contact. The
individual should have that right. I understand the use of these programs
would be an individual decision, correct? Why is is bad for the "community"
to allow a given individual to exercise that control? I could see this
as a problem with some sort of emergency situation, like a tornado
alert, sure. But I don't see the rationale for unlimited access to me,
or anyone else, here. I have been interrupted in the past, sometimes
with worthwhile requests to talk, sometimes with inane demands. Now
I keep mesg-n (or whatever it was) turned on and the silence is golden.
(adbarr is not disagreeing with jenna here, just making general comments>
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bjorn
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response 241 of 315:
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Jul 14 12:43 UTC 1996 |
Re #239: That's one of the reasons that I thought the conference Etiquette
thing should pop up every time someone tries to contact another who is not
completely idle at the time or doing something less time consuming than
conferencing.
I'd much rather have a short breech in communication in real time, than the
complete isolation I'm in now. I could re-program watch, but that would make
the breech in my protection TOO LARGE, as it would open the channel to any
idiot who wants to talk with me.
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pfv
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response 242 of 315:
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Jul 14 16:43 UTC 1996 |
Why is it _SO_ hard to accept the .allow/.deny concept? Are you guys
having a "mind-block"?
Look, I have yet to see a technical reason againt both the .allow AND the
(reversed) .deny system(s).
Instead, the arguments remain _political_ and the detractors continue to
proselytize in the hopes they can force a "Political Correctness"
viewpoint down the throats of all the others that WANT to have and
EXERCISE their right/freedom from harrassment.
Some days, Grex looks a lot like Arbornuts.
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brighn
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response 243 of 315:
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Jul 14 19:41 UTC 1996 |
I just noticed the irony, btw, of "If you want to be anti-social,
go somewhere else!", the tone of many of the anti-.deny/.allow camp.
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rcurl
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response 244 of 315:
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Jul 14 20:47 UTC 1996 |
I am now of the opinion that we should allow maximum freedom for users
to tailor their interface. We have all "kinds" here. To some extent,
the environment modifies some behavior, but overall very little. Let
people be open or closed as they wish. The nature of Grex does not hinge
on this - its what users do when they participate that forms the nature
of Grex, and that does not depend upon being able to tel/write/chat others.
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jenna
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response 245 of 315:
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Jul 15 01:32 UTC 1996 |
re 240: no, not completely, however, moreso than I wish to be cut off.
i am of the persnal opinion that things such as system messages/shutdowns
even warning messages about multiple logins and other problems with
people on grex being dealt with by staffers should superceed the
yes and nowrite functions. this is about personal interactions between
people who are not messing with the system. (I imagine that system
shutdown messages and such are already not completely interlaced with
messages>
and yes! this arguement is growing old and politicol and it is
hypocritical to say "if you want to be anti-social go somewhere
else" I DON't think anybody sits at a promt and does nothing for
their entire time of grex...
there are diferent ways of being social. I post in conferences
and anyone who wants to is free to read my posts. i go into
party where anyone who is there can talk to me. I just perfer
not to get private messages from people i don't want them from
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janc
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response 246 of 315:
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Jul 15 03:03 UTC 1996 |
Re 238: Yup. In the early days of M-Net, the staff was not exactly tightly
controlled. M-Net and Grex still carry on a tradition where staff plays some
pranks every April Fool's days. I don't remember what year we started doing
that, but the big innovation was doing it only once a year. Little things
like editing the utmp file to change user's names on the fly were pretty
usual (a lot of the oddball options in party were originally pranks). With
all this going on, sudden changes in the software were the least of the user's
worry.
Golly, wasn't that fun? Think I'll go edit kerouac.
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tsty
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response 247 of 315:
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Jul 16 08:50 UTC 1996 |
... we can look forward to responses from merrywhack now? <g>
the key difference between .yeswrite and mesg n is that mesg n is
not prejudiced, .yeswrite reeks of prejudice. mesg n is blanket
regardless of anything else.
at this very second i have mesg n (and also newmail btw) so NO ONE
no "select few" is "preferred" - all are blanketed out.
it is ratehr a shame that .nowrite is needed, but it is.
it is rather a shame that the extremes and prejudice of .yeswrite is being
considred, it doesn't speak too favorably of the proponents, imho.
of course the extreme from .yeswrite is to do your own b0x with no
connections to the rest of the community.
grex just had a 5th year picnic .... was the structure of .nowrite in
place for that? of course not. was the structure of .yeswrite in place?
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void
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response 248 of 315:
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Jul 16 09:54 UTC 1996 |
so, irl, you can either be forced to put up with all the jerks in your town
whenever they feel like bothering you, or you can lock yourself up in your
house and do nothing but look out the window? that's the closest analogy i
can think of for what you're advocating, tsty. having .yeswrite and/or
.nowrite available will indeed allow some people to form cliques, or act
snobbish or isolationist if they choose to. having those options available
does not automatically mean that *everyone* will use them. that's why they're
called "options."
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bjorn
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response 249 of 315:
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Jul 16 13:07 UTC 1996 |
It is simply not possible not to be prejudiced - however, it is possible to
justify predjudices with valid reason - well some of them, anyway.
While a .yeswrite is predjudiced against everyone who isn't in it, it's not
so offensive as a .nowrite that would have perticular people blocked off.
I like being a loner on Grex, however, there are times when I want to RTC with
people, or them with me - and I am getting sick off having to turn messages
on so that ANY IDIOT can RTC with me.
IMHO, tsty, you're overlooking the obvious.
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