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Grex > Agora56 > #105: State: Wal-Mart must carry emergency contraception | |
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| 25 new of 526 responses total. |
marcvh
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response 216 of 526:
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Feb 28 17:49 UTC 2006 |
I've always found the "Viagra vs. birth control pills" argument to be a
little on the silly side for a variety of reasons:
- ED is a disease, while fertility is not.
- Viagra is a new medication for which cheap generic versions are not
available. BCPs are old, available in generic versions, and therefore
cheap
- Poor and lower-middle-class people can get BCPs for free (PP offers
such a program, for example.)
- Not all health insurance covers Viagra anyway; it's expensive and there
is a perception (quite possibly an accurate one) that many people use
it recreationally rather than out of medical necessity. The trend is
toward dropping coverage for it, both by private and public insurers.
I think it would be a nice idea for health insurance plans to cover BCPs
given how cheap they are and how expensive pregnancy is, but that's
their call to make given what their actuaries come up with. I don't see
what it has to do with covering treatment for ED, and reading misogyny
into it is just absurd.
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edina
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response 217 of 526:
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Feb 28 17:53 UTC 2006 |
Maybe misogyny is a strong word. Having been on the side where insurance will
cover a vasectomy, but not BCP seemed unfair. Sure, they will cover tubal
ligation as well, but good luck getting a dr to do it when you young. It's
just an odd thing.
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tod
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response 218 of 526:
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Feb 28 18:02 UTC 2006 |
re #204
I see prolifers with their disgusting billboards every week standing out in
front of clinics. While you're talking about being trashed online on some
website forum, I'm talking about real life people bullying neighborhoods.
And yes, in some cases like Florida, there is the occassional gunman that
kills a doctor and innocent bystander.
It isn't just Seattle where I've seen this. I've seen these prolife nutters
all around the country. This goes back at least 2 decades for me of seeing
these shameless people spewing their hate.
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marcvh
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response 219 of 526:
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Feb 28 18:09 UTC 2006 |
It seems pretty nice for companies to provide the same coverage for
vasectomy and having your tubes tied, given that the procedure for women
is more involved and more expensive.
If/when the male BCP comes out, I suppose insurance companies will
likely cover it the same way that they cover the female version, although
like any new drug it will be more expensive at first. This leads to a
new hypothesis I'd like to pose:
If the male BCP is more expensive or harder to get than the female
BCP, people will cry misogyny and claim that economic pressures are
forcing women to be the ones who disrupt their hormones and incur
additional risks for the sake of birth control. On the other hand, if
the male BCP is cheaper or easier to get than the female BCP, people
will cry misogyny and claim that men are being given preferential access
to reproductive freedom.
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edina
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response 220 of 526:
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Feb 28 18:10 UTC 2006 |
Point taken.
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tod
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response 221 of 526:
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Feb 28 18:13 UTC 2006 |
Condoms should be tax deductible.
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keesan
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response 222 of 526:
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Feb 28 18:17 UTC 2006 |
I am not required to pay extra for health insurance that covers things like
birth control and pregnancy. All the above comments seem to assume that
health insurance is free.
Since when has sex been a medical necessity?
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edina
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response 223 of 526:
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Feb 28 18:17 UTC 2006 |
I wholeheartedly agree. Which is why in may places, they are free.
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marcvh
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response 224 of 526:
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Feb 28 18:46 UTC 2006 |
Re #221, Condoms can be reimbursed with pre-tax dollars if you have a
flexible spending account. It's not quite the same thing but it has a
similar effect.
Re #222, I think most people would consider sex to be a "major life
function."
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tod
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response 225 of 526:
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Feb 28 18:46 UTC 2006 |
re #222
Since when has sex been a medical necessity?
It is a good sign of mental health.
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jadecat
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response 226 of 526:
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Feb 28 19:06 UTC 2006 |
Part of the issue is the type of hormonal birth control. Some
brands/versions work better than others. My insurance covers the generic
brand of Alesse as a lowest tier, Mircette as a second tier and Desogen
as a third tier. In my particular case- Alesse gave me migraines, so I
can't take it. Mircette caused massive mood swings and depression.
Desogen worked the best, but it too had it's negative side effects.
However, at $30 a month? Every month? I couldn't afford it.
Those are pretty much the only three that I saw covered. There are at
least 15 more (Ortho, Ortho Tri-cyclen, Ortho-Low, Yasmin, and on and
on) and some are monophasic, others not. Some work for a woman, some
don't. Yet with my insurance I only have three options.
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rcurl
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response 227 of 526:
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Feb 28 20:12 UTC 2006 |
Compare
"One thing I've learned about liberalism is its rabid attacks on people
with views opposing theirs, at least when it comes to 2nd amendment rights
and related issues."
to
One thing I've learned about conservatism is its rabid attacks on people
with views opposing theirs, at least when it comes to 2nd amendment rights
and related issues.
and we see that the first, which was stated here, is nothing but a
poke-in-the-eye and gives no basis for beieving it. Therefore it seems only
to have expressed mindless hate.
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happyboy
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response 228 of 526:
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Feb 28 20:23 UTC 2006 |
liberal rabid attacks. right nate.
fallwell
roberston
rove
o'reilley
hannity
drudge
savage
coulter
the cato institute
the birch society
operation rescue (randall terry supports terrorists)
ralph *gamblin money* reed
jack *indians are troglodytes* abramoff
dick *shotgun halliburton 5 deferments* cheney
gw *awol nepotism* bush
alan *i hate my gay hedonist daughter* keyes
arnold *i'll call them girlymen and hope that they don't realize
that i went awol from the austrian military* schwartzenegger
bunch of liberal rabid attack dogs, eh?
here's an old nazi trick for you...accuse the otherside
(liberals) of doing the things of which YOU are guilty.
nice try.
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tod
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response 229 of 526:
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Feb 28 20:43 UTC 2006 |
re #228
Nepotism = http://arborwiki.org
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nharmon
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response 230 of 526:
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Feb 28 21:06 UTC 2006 |
Ok, I don't see how listing a bunch of rightwing nutjobs has any
relevance to how people on gun-control forums treat visitors who have
opposing viewpoints. I contrasted how liberals treated such visitors
with how conservatives treated other visitors. This was intended to
show my reluctance to believe pro-choice liberals would be accepting of
people with opposing viewpoints.
But, if you take that as "mindless hate", then be my guest. By the way,
you people have done a fantastic job at proving me wrong too. Calling
me a nazi, hypocritical, and whatever else, without even arguing the
points being made (or in some cases, even reading the entire post).
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happyboy
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response 231 of 526:
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Feb 28 21:44 UTC 2006 |
did i call YOU a nazi nathan?
as for the list of rightwing nutjobs...well, learn to love them
kemosabe, they are your spokespersons. :)
tod, yep. or substitute cronyism if you like.
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edina
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response 232 of 526:
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Feb 28 21:45 UTC 2006 |
I don't and I disagree with you on stuff. I enjoy your contribution. But
if youwant me to call you a hypocritical nazi, well, you'll have to ask
*really* nicely.
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marcvh
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response 233 of 526:
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Feb 28 21:48 UTC 2006 |
I would expect that there are some communities of liberals who are inclined
to toleration and others who are inclined to confrontation, and the same
would apply to conservatives. It's possible that liberals are more
likely to be combative, or that conservatives are, but trying to
extrapolate from a sample size of 1 isn't sufficient data to show much
of anything.
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twenex
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response 234 of 526:
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Feb 28 22:04 UTC 2006 |
...Which just shows what an idiot you are (Nathan).
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nharmon
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response 235 of 526:
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Feb 28 22:13 UTC 2006 |
Yeah, Marc, it might not be all that objective, but when 1 is the only
sample size available...you make do with what you got ;)
> did i call YOU a nazi nathan?
First you cited a old "nazi trick", and then said "nice try". What
WERE you implying?
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nharmon
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response 236 of 526:
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Feb 28 22:28 UTC 2006 |
Thats funny Jeff, I have yet to see your insightfull opinion on the
matter. No, all you do is make silly jokes about conservatives and
republicans, call people names, and then when they call you on it you
can't be found.
At least I have some respect for happyboy's sarcasm because he backs
it up. You just come into an item, drop your stink, and then leave.
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twenex
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response 237 of 526:
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Feb 28 22:36 UTC 2006 |
I find the idea of "emergency conctraceptive pills" rather odd.
Happy now?
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happyboy
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response 238 of 526:
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Feb 28 22:41 UTC 2006 |
hey! i guess i WAS implying that you are a nazi, nate!
oops!
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nharmon
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response 239 of 526:
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Feb 28 23:04 UTC 2006 |
Re 238: ROFL
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slynne
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response 240 of 526:
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Mar 1 01:50 UTC 2006 |
resp:216 The reason I see whole Viagra/Pill thing as relevant is that I
think it illustrates our culture's different views on male and female
sexuality. Male sexual freedom is to be encouraged while female sexual
freedom is not. I might be able to buy the idea the ED is a disease but
pregnancy is not point except that hormonal birth control pills are
often used to treat medical conditions and are not only used to prevent
pregnancy. While it is true that poor women can get BCP for free, that
is mostly a result of the work of feminists who have gone to great
effort to make it so because reproductive freedom makes a huge
difference in women's lives. That and because medicaid covers it in a
lot of states which makes since since medicaid has a pretty big
incentive to cover it.
Now, if it is really true that insurance companies are really dropping
coverage for Viagra, that is a stong point in favor of the idea that the
Viagra/BPC comparison might not be as meaningful as some people see it.
Even so, it is telling that so many right to life groups are against
birth control methods but no one seems to worry too much about drugs
like viagra.
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