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Grex > Coop > #278: Grex Town Hall -- How do we move forward? |  |
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| 25 new of 357 responses total. |
tod
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response 204 of 357:
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Jun 24 22:42 UTC 2010 |
Well, if Grex told me that they expect to have copyright of all
my entries in BBS then I would probably stop participating. I don't
want people (including Grex) having the right to steal my creative
works or relayed expressions of my own experiences. I'm also against
having my entries webcrawled to the Internet. Grex has always been
a spot where I can converse freely to whatever set of participants
are listed for a particular conference. I have never seen Grex
as a place to "blog".
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lar
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response 205 of 357:
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Jun 24 22:45 UTC 2010 |
" the time limit is important because it would prevent circumstances
like
when valerie mates decided to leave grex and decided to delete all of
his past posts she ever made here going back years."
Your stupidity knows no bounds. popcunt had root and this allowed her
to do anything she wanted. no lame ass bbs block could stop that bitch
just shut up richard,you are a fucking fool
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richard
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response 206 of 357:
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Jun 24 23:17 UTC 2010 |
It is not a matter of 'expecting' to have copyright. They do have
copyright. Look at the bottom of the home page on the website where it
says: " 2008 Copyright grex.org. All Rights Reserved". Grex has to
be responsible for what is posted on its site. If someone posts an
item advocating specific acts of terrorism in Agora, the feds are not
going to buy any claim that grex's board/staff are in no way
responsible because they claim no copyrights. By use of this board to
post, you consent to grex's publishing your work and grex retains
responsibility for the consequences of publishing it. It has to
because you can get a login here and post without divulging who you
are. Grex has to accept that it holds the legal liability for open
anonymous posting.
We had this discussion back when the Communications Decency Act and
Michigan's version of it were being proposed. It was even suggested
that if the Michigan CDA took effect that the entire Grex board should
resign so that it would be difficult for the state to hold anyone
responsible for what is posted here.
re #24 5tod you said earlier you were against valerie removing her
posts in that conf, and now it seems you agree with her that she owned
her posts. contradictory?
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mary
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response 207 of 357:
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Jun 24 23:32 UTC 2010 |
Tod, sometimes it boggles my mind how you can be so confident and wrong
at the same time. You've made comments like resp. #200 before - "Mary
was the biggest supporter of censoring because Valerie is a "friend of
Grex" while the rest of us are peasants or something".
All the history on this incident is still available, here, on Grex, word
for word. Someone else will have to site the conference and item
numbers.
I didn't support Valerie's actions and I was a strong advocate of
restoring the deleted items. My position actually cost me a few
friendships but I still believe allowing it to go down the way it did
was wrong. Very wrong. I'd take that same position today no matter the
persons involved. But the community voted otherwise. Such is
democracy. Most of us accepted that and moved on.
There is integrity in honesty. Try it on for size, you may like the
respect that comes with it.
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marcvh
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response 208 of 357:
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Jun 24 23:50 UTC 2010 |
Summary: we cannot move forward, because this community is incapable of
anything other than navel-gazing and obsessing about minutiae.
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lar
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response 209 of 357:
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Jun 24 23:52 UTC 2010 |
re#207 don't laud your self rightoeusness with me you ugly whore....you
had
the gall to contact a previous employer of mine.
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mary
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response 210 of 357:
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Jun 25 00:04 UTC 2010 |
It wasn't always like that, Marc. I tend to think of the Grex community
as family. You know, real family not the idealized version where everyone
likes everyone else. We get thrown together and have to learn to get
along. Mostly. Or at least learn to tolerate what we can't accept. It's
a valuable experience. But maybe, just maybe, at some point, we learn
enough to move on. Next stop, the Well, where adults bicker. ;-)
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tod
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response 211 of 357:
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Jun 25 00:12 UTC 2010 |
re #207
There is integrity in honesty. Try it on for size, you may like the
respect that comes with it.
Feel free to post your comments from January 2004 regarding the restoration.
If I'm mistaking your comments for Glenda or somebody then I apologize. I
am fairly certain though that I recall you defending Val's actions as
"favored persons who are friends of Grex" or something along those lines.
I appreciate that you have a hardened stance against censorship.
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kentn
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response 212 of 357:
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Jun 25 00:16 UTC 2010 |
Re 206, by that logic, look at the bbs at the command line. Right
there near the top it says "Copyright 2001-2005, Jan Wolter" therefore
Jan owns the copyright to the conference responses. I'd like more
clarification on what the copyright situation really is. From what I've
seen since I've been here, Grex doesn't want to own people's words,
but maybe the law forces that upon us. If so, as Rane has shown, a
copyright policy can be put in place that divides copyright between
users for their individual responses and Grex for the collection of
responses and their presentation.
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tod
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response 213 of 357:
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Jun 25 00:18 UTC 2010 |
I'm feeling an urge to parody this item over on m-net.
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richard
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response 214 of 357:
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Jun 25 01:40 UTC 2010 |
re #212 actually that backtalk copyright indicates it expired in 2006,
so possibly this means the program is in the public domain now and
anybody here who can get the code and knows how to do it could do some
of these updates we've been suggesting.
Also consider this, if in fact Grex does get sued over something
posted here, and the specific post or posts are edited after the fact,
how can Grex defend what was originally posted? Allowing users, past
a stated time period, the right to permanently edit or remove any item
or response they put up at any time paat or present, could leave grex
in a legally vulnerable situation. Grex IS publishing these posts, it
is putting them on the internet.
If somebody enters an item on how to do terrorist acts and then
deletes it a day later, it has still been on grex and published on the
internet for a day and if the item was deleted how can grex defend
itself against those who will use their imaginations to exaggerate to
authorities as to what was posted? Grex isn't and can't be invisible
in these matters, it has to assert copyright.
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lar
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response 215 of 357:
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Jun 25 01:44 UTC 2010 |
you are a total fool,shut up idiot,you don't have a fucking clue
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kentn
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response 216 of 357:
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Jun 25 02:15 UTC 2010 |
Good grief. The copyright didn't expire in 2006. That just means
it's probably the last time new code was added to the program and
copyrighted. Copyrights in the U.S. go for many decades and certainly
don't end the year they were begun.
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richard
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response 217 of 357:
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Jun 25 02:26 UTC 2010 |
They can go on for many decades, but that one said 1996-2006. It was
for a decade. Did they bother to renew it?
I suppose Grex could buy new conferencing software. Anybody know any
good ones on the market?
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tod
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response 218 of 357:
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Jun 25 03:01 UTC 2010 |
I suppose janc would sue for 5 years of back licensing..
FrontTalk 0.9.2
Copyright 2001-2005, Jan Wolter
Connected to Grex server (version 0.9.2 - direct)
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kentn
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response 219 of 357:
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Jun 25 03:14 UTC 2010 |
Hmmm...if you go by their web site, it's free: "Fronttalk is available
free of charge under a standard Gnu License."
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kentn
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response 220 of 357:
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Jun 25 03:17 UTC 2010 |
Re 217: if your copyright goes for 95 years, which it does in the U.S.
then it hasn't come due for renew yet.
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jep
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response 221 of 357:
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Jun 25 13:54 UTC 2010 |
Grex needs to quit going into a tizzy every time someone uses the magic
word, "censorship". That has a specific meaning and it's not "someone
deleted anything and one individual didn't like it". No one flutters
their hands and runs around in circles wailing "censorship" because a
blogger deleted something.
Grex can stand four-square for a uniform heap of garbage where any
meaning is buried in excrement and attacks, with no rules or
conventions. It can promote discussion, conversation and community by
creating an environment of civility and tolerance for others. It cannot
do both.
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slynne
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response 222 of 357:
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Jun 25 14:41 UTC 2010 |
resp:221 I disagree. If grex were to give control of items and their
responses to item authors, various authors would have inevitably have
different styles of moderation. People would then be free to forget
items not moderated to their taste. If a high moderation item author
were to censor anyone, that person would be free to enter their own
item. So no real censorship but still the ability to promote discussion,
conversation, etc.
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tonster
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response 223 of 357:
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Jun 25 15:15 UTC 2010 |
resp:201: I absolutely disagree with that, and I will not agree that I
give up my right to delete my posts if and when I choose to do so in the
future. I'm not aware of anyplace that takes sole copyright over
content like that. I disagree with the time limitation of being able to
modify posted content, however I can live with it. I will not
participate in Grex any longer (and will remove my content prior) if
such a stance is enacted.
resp:204: I totally agree.
resp:221: There's little more important than keeping censorship nearly
non-existent. If you want censorship, move to china or south korea or
iran.
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mary
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response 224 of 357:
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Jun 25 15:24 UTC 2010 |
There is a command that will go through conferences and remove all you've
ever entered. It kind of makes a mess of things as a coherent archive,
but hey, that's how it goes. Some people have used it repeatedly. I
don't have a problem with that although when they come back and
immediately start entering new, similar responses, I tend to think of it
more as passive-agressive behavior than housekeeping.
Deleted responses will make the item look new to everyone else. But a
quick "fix" takes care of that.
I like the way someone can take all their toys and go home, if they want
to, and I hope Grex continues to allow folks to do this.
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slynne
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response 225 of 357:
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Jun 25 15:29 UTC 2010 |
resp:223 Did you know that anyone can archive anything you say so in a
sense, you already do not necessarily have the ability to delete things
you have written.
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mary
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response 226 of 357:
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Jun 25 15:53 UTC 2010 |
Yep, and some people do tar backups on a regular basis. And have for
decades. Scary? Only if you used bad judgement in the first place.
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tonster
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response 227 of 357:
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Jun 25 16:05 UTC 2010 |
I realize that it's possible they could come back, but I think it'd be
pretty clear my intent was for them not to, and it'd be pretty difficult
to put them all back right in the places that they were without taking
an enormous amount of time to accomplish it. I wouldn't use a script to
do it anyway, that's pretty hackish. More than anything, I just want to
make it clear I'm greatly opposed to such a change in position for grex.
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tod
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response 228 of 357:
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Jun 25 16:53 UTC 2010 |
re #221
it's not "someone
deleted anything and one individual didn't like it"
Censorship is more about affecting someone else's right to publish. I have
no problem with someone deleting their own entry..just don't delete responses
or items by others.
re #224
they come back and
immediately start entering new, similar responses
I admit I'm a guilty participant of such behavior. Initially it was because
my full name was attached and I was beginning to suspect an unwanted webcrawl.
I like the way someone can take all their toys and go home, if they want
to, and I hope Grex continues to allow folks to do this.
I like that too. So long as it is not the toys (postings) of others which
are affected.
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