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| Author |
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| 25 new of 245 responses total. |
wannit
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response 200 of 245:
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Dec 21 11:52 UTC 1994 |
Sorry to break in here, but Grex is a free accessable thing so....
Soulmates.
What is a soulmate?
Is that a willing ear? A shoulder to lean on? Or is there more?
I think so.
A friend can mean a lot to you; you can even love a friend in
(as I hope) the purest way possible.
Therefore without that spoil of sexual attraction.
I've got three true friends (though only two are my trusties)
and I love them dearly with all my heart.
When I reached that point of admitting my feelings towards
them I came out for it. <anyone is pleased to hear they're
loved, I guess>.
Which in this point is not the easiest thing to do, because
I am a man, and so are my friends. But they took it as I
stated it. A matter of the heart.
I couldn't even imagine that such thing could rouse trouble.
It's my opinion, and it's always been one, that people should
express themselves more often. Show what is going without the
fear of getting hurt. If I like someone, it's sincere. If I
love someone, it's the same. Why hide it?
\iiiii/
( 0 0 )
I
\-/
Rick.
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gerund
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response 201 of 245:
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Dec 21 13:44 UTC 1994 |
The whole issue is still way too hazy for me.
Why hide it? Fear, mainly.
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rickverm
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response 202 of 245:
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Dec 21 14:43 UTC 1994 |
Come over your fear gerund.
<I know it's easier said than done>
I bet there is a beautiful you inside.
Rick.
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fraizer
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response 203 of 245:
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Dec 21 18:51 UTC 1994 |
Rick: You say people should express themselves without the fear of
getting hurt. But that fear is USUALLY a warrented fear. People, for the most
part(part) are insensitive bastards. I talk from experience. Backstabbing and
betrayal seem to be as American as apple pie. Even if it just happens once to
somebody it's always going to be there in the back of their mind the next time
they're about to confide in someone. So that leads to internalizing and then to
ulsers, etc.... For example right now I'm miserable. Inside I feel empty and
worthless, but, for fear of rejection and other big negative words, I keep it
inside and put on a 'Happy Face.' In general I just think people when they ask
"How are you doing?" they only want to hear" Oh just fine!" or something like
that. Or when they say "If you ever need to talk(talk) I'll be here." they only
say it because it's the 'right' thing to say, not because they expect you to
actually want to talk to them. In a perfect world everyone would love and
respect everyone else, but, SURPRISE!, this is NOT a perfect world and the
people reflect that like a mirror. Yes this is the pesimistic view of things,
but that's what the world has tought me personally. And there are, I'm sure, a
lot of great people out there. People that do care, and want to help[ and
listen. It's just that I have yet to meet any of them. I try to be that person
as much as I can, but the opportunity doesn't come up a lot. Probably for some
of the reasons I mentioned earlier. I'm not whining. I can live with things how
they are, but some people can't.
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gerund
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response 204 of 245:
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Dec 21 23:29 UTC 1994 |
No, there is a beautiful me on the outside that people don't warm up to.
Inside, there isn't much but despair.
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anne
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response 205 of 245:
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Dec 21 23:30 UTC 1994 |
frazier, do count meeting people on grex as meeting people? Cause I know
that there are a lot of people here who care, and want to help. I know
personally when I tell someone that if they need to talk, I'll be here-
that I mean it. I don't just say it cause its the right thing... that
just isn't who I am- and I know there are other people around here who
mean it...
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kami
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response 206 of 245:
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Dec 21 23:34 UTC 1994 |
Gee, Fraizer, that's pretty depressing. Fortunately, it's just about
opposite to my experience. While I've occasionally had people hurt
me by their carelessness or inability to handle what they took on, or
even once or twice out of malice, mostly I've met a world of wonderful
people who give more than one might expect, care more than they owe,
and are will do everything within thier power for a friend. That's the
catch: don't ask people to do what's not within their power; don't
expect a stingy person to be generous or a weak person to give you
truth or a scared person to be gentle and steady. That's often the
source of unpleasant surprises: overfacing a person.
I'm sorry to hear you so embittered by your experiences. It's hard to
reverse such patterns and expectations.
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gerund
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response 207 of 245:
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Dec 22 00:32 UTC 1994 |
Hell yea.
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brighn
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response 208 of 245:
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Dec 22 02:16 UTC 1994 |
Up until this year, I walked around in a turtle shell because of
experiences like Frazier's. Then I started to open up to people other than
my wife, and one of the first people down the pike who said, "talk to me,
really, I want to help," wound up deciding I was a sick and twisted bastard
and ran off into the hills spouting not-nice psychobabble. My first
responce was to jump back into my turtle shell, but I poked my head out
just enough to look around. What did I find? I bunch of people who
rally *did* care, but who were very explicit in their limits. I had been
looking for a cure, and the person who wanted to cure me was just not able
to handle it. When I starrted looking for support to cure myself, instead,
I found plenty of caring people who were willing to help me help myself
(in exchange for a shoulder to cry on themselves). Some of those nice,
fuzzly shoulders are on Grex... thanks, guys. *hugs hugs hugs hugs*
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wannit
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response 209 of 245:
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Dec 22 07:38 UTC 1994 |
That's the spirit.
You cannot expect your friends to be a therapist.
Just let them be there to support you. As Brighn stated: the
rest you gotta do yourself.
Re: 203.
Cheer up.
If Americans don't allow you to show your feelings could
mean you've never run into the right ones, or Americans
are bastards. The last I refuse to believe.
Move to the Netherlands if it gets too bad. We will accept you
as you are.
Rick.
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gerund
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response 210 of 245:
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Dec 22 14:42 UTC 1994 |
Sigh... This is depressing.
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flem
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response 211 of 245:
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Dec 22 16:45 UTC 1994 |
It really pisses me off that people would half-try to be friends. That
is, they say taht they would be willing to listen if you ever need to talk
and then they refuse to listen to you, or take you seriously. I haven't
had this experience personally, but it just pisses me off that people
would do that. It cheapens the concept of friendship, which is one of the
noblest concepts left in our society.
One other thing that was said that bothers me, I think, is that someone
mentioned that friendship should be "pure" and "free of sexual
attraction." I think that if this were so, then no relationship could
work other than purely platonic friendships. What is love but being
sexually attracted to a friend? Well, there's probably a lot more to it
than that, but that's probably how it starts. Oh, well.
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fraizer
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response 212 of 245:
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Dec 22 18:05 UTC 1994 |
Sorry to bring everyone down. I was just having a bad day yesterday.
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brighn
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response 213 of 245:
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Dec 22 20:38 UTC 1994 |
Flem: "What is love but being sexually attracted to a friend?"
I have several friends whom I love deeply but with whom there is little,
if any, sexual attraction. One of my closest female friends right now and
I have had conversations about this... how we've both been programmed as
Americans to think "close friendship/love + potential sex partner =
sexual attraction" when in fact neither of us are terribly sexually
attracted to the other.
<brighn grubles about flem's simplistic view of things>
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gerund
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response 214 of 245:
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Dec 22 21:13 UTC 1994 |
If that's what love is boy am I in trouble.
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wannit
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response 215 of 245:
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Dec 23 07:45 UTC 1994 |
Re 211:
When Harry met Sally.
'There can be no friendship between men and women without sex;
or else there can be no friendship' NO?
BIG pile of bull's faeces.
I didn't say that that cannot happen.
Personally I donT feel sex for my friends whatsoever (male or
female that is).
But I also didn't say that somenone I feel sexual attracted
to can't be my friend.
It's a thin line.
R. with a big
Merry X-mas for the whole of Grex town and the world.
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flem
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response 216 of 245:
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Dec 27 03:07 UTC 1994 |
Did I say that men and women couldn't be platonic friends? If I did,
I didn't mean to. I just meant that they shouldn't necessarily always
be, not that they can't. I agree with you that the concept of love
in America has cheapened a lot...I guess I got caught by it for a sec.
I *did* say that there was more to love than that, if you'll look
at my response.
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gerund
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response 217 of 245:
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Dec 27 20:24 UTC 1994 |
Time to get back to what I started this for... how far for a friend?
I used to think like this:
family then friends then me
then everyone else
Sadly, after a lot of ugly experiences I started to think like this:
friends then family then me
then everyone else
now, REALLY SADLY, I've come to this possition:
ME then friends then family
then everyone else
Sometimes friends are going to want more than you can give.
At that point someone is probably going to get hurt... probably both of you.
The thing is, I'm learning that for anything you do there is some price to pay
and that if you give more than you can give you will have a hard time paying
the price. I've come to believe that if you set limits based on YOURSELF
and your values then even when a friend wants more than you can give and you
tell them so, the price YOU pay will not be as high as the price you pay
for going beyond your limits. I'm still shakey with that assessment, but
I'm beginning to think it's the right one.
In a way I'm truly sorry that I do, because I'm not cold enough to draw lines
and limits... or should I just say that I'm not smart enough yet?
My internal landscape says there is a trajedy in this, somewhere.
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brighn
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response 218 of 245:
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Dec 27 21:36 UTC 1994 |
Gerund, dear, why is the last arrangement a sad one?
That's my position as well -- I think it's the best one.
self, then kith, then kin
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gerund
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response 219 of 245:
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Dec 27 22:35 UTC 1994 |
I'm not sure if it is. It just FEELS sad to me right now.
Oh, and brighn. ABOVE was what I meant. I sorta
messed the terms up in party, ok?
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kami
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response 220 of 245:
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Dec 28 20:53 UTC 1994 |
I agree; if I am empty, I have nothing to give my friends. So I have to
care for myself first, in order to do good elsewhere. Then, we choose our
friends and they choose us, so the bond is immediate, while family may
be an accident of birth rather than a strong bond. Except- tht's more about
extended family. I have a great deal of responsibility toward my immediate
family. I suppose I've chosen that. I have no idea if the boys will feel
that way toward M. and me or if they even should. I suppose i just bring
those friends to whom I'm closest into my sense of "family" and tend to
them all together. But then, I'm the only "mommy", so we're back to: take
care of myself first, because I can't really expect anyone else to, even
if they are willing- they don't necessarily know how. Yeah, it kinda sounds
sad if you are waiting for other people to share your standards and goals
or to read your mind or whatever, but it's better than stripping oneself
bare or resenting people who can't meet expectations they never volunteered
for. I've been over this whole issue vis a vis my parents.
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sun
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response 221 of 245:
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Dec 28 21:08 UTC 1994 |
Yes, but what I think needs to be remembered, is that even though you are
looking out for number one, you still have to think of others. you cannot
just disregard the feelings and responsbilities ot others. You are not alone
in this world. Sometimes you HAVE to think of others. If you don't, bad
things CAN and WILL happen. It is the nature of friendsip.
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gerund
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response 222 of 245:
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Dec 28 21:48 UTC 1994 |
Yes, you are alone in this world.
I never think of others... well i'm going to change that
and let you all get on.
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flem
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response 223 of 245:
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Dec 29 22:47 UTC 1994 |
re 221: Yes, but delete the "sometimes."
re 222: No, you're not alone in the world. That's why you have to think
about others.
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gerund
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response 224 of 245:
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Dec 29 23:30 UTC 1994 |
Yes, and, although I didn't think of others, there is someone else
who didn't think of others too.
I usually ALWAYS think of others.
I didn't for once.
I was wrong there.
I'm not taking 100% of the blame for this, however.
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