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Grex > Agora47 > #214: Election year approaches - the solution to the education problem. | |
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| 25 new of 29 responses total. |
md
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response 2 of 29:
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Dec 9 12:11 UTC 2003 |
In, uh, the Bush admin? Standardized tests? "No child left behind"?
WHAT IS IT??
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jp2
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response 3 of 29:
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Dec 9 13:35 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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bru
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response 4 of 29:
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Dec 9 14:43 UTC 2003 |
they were talking the other day about a district wehre the teacher was removed
in a dispute with the children in her calss, adn she was amking $75,000.00
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gull
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response 5 of 29:
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Dec 9 14:48 UTC 2003 |
jp2's experience with teachers is different from mine. But if what he
says is true, it's probably because if you have that kind of knowledge,
you can make far more money in just about any occupation other than
teaching. There really isn't much to attract highly qualified people to
the teaching profession.
bru's figure is an unusual case. The average teacher salary in the U.S.
is $44,400. It ranges from around $50,000 in California to $30,000 in
South Dakota. Many engineering graduates have *starting* salaries
higher than that.
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polygon
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response 6 of 29:
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Dec 9 15:10 UTC 2003 |
In my experience, public school teachers have a certain loyalty to the
public schools.
On the other hand, it's not hard to imagine a situation where a child
has special needs not met by the public schools.
I remember a prominent politician who was very committed to public
education. He was elected to a major position, moved to the capital, and
sent his son to the public schools there. But the son had pretty bad
time. He was targeted, beaten up by toughs day after day, and I think
they broke some bones. Eventually, a deal was quietly worked out to send
him to a suburban school district.
Sure, it would have been easy to nail the father to the wall about this
politically. But what the hell else could he have done? Provide a
bodyguard and make his son even more conspicuous?
Holding kids hostage to politics has a certain appeal, especially if you
see teachers as the problem. Maybe in the long run it might change things
for the better. But the needs of the kids in the present need to come
first.
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gelinas
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response 7 of 29:
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Dec 9 16:03 UTC 2003 |
(I can't find the Ann Arbor salary schedule online, nor on my machine's disk
right now. IIRC, an MA, with an additional 90 credit-hours, and ten years'
teaching experience is worth $60,000/year. A PhD with ten year's teaching
experience approaches $70,000. A BA and no experience is worth something like
$26,000 per year.)
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gull
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response 8 of 29:
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Dec 9 16:27 UTC 2003 |
I'm sure the market has changed over the past few years, but when I
graduated from college in 2000 a lot of my friends who had BS degrees in
engineering and no experience were starting at $60,000. So basically,
by going into education you cut your wage-earning potential by more than
half, even if you pick a school district that pays relatively well.
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gull
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response 9 of 29:
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Dec 9 16:28 UTC 2003 |
(My little brother thinks he wants to go into teaching, and my dad is
really torn between encouraging him and pointing out to him that there's
no money in it.)
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bru
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response 10 of 29:
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Dec 9 20:17 UTC 2003 |
I wish Iwas making a salary of $40,000 at any position I have ever worked.
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happyboy
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response 11 of 29:
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Dec 9 20:50 UTC 2003 |
re9: talk him out of it.
re10: i guess special ed let you down.
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keesan
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response 12 of 29:
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Dec 9 22:00 UTC 2003 |
Teachers get three months off in which to earn even more money.
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gelinas
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response 13 of 29:
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Dec 9 22:08 UTC 2003 |
Not really. They have to continue taking classes to maintain their teaching
certificates.
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tod
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response 14 of 29:
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Dec 9 23:50 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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beeswing
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response 15 of 29:
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Dec 10 00:49 UTC 2003 |
Yep. My summer vacation will not be a vacation at all. I'll be doing
summer school full time for certification.
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other
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response 16 of 29:
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Dec 10 00:54 UTC 2003 |
Bruce, the only requirements for earning a high salary are
perseverance and intelligence.
Oh...
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happyboy
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response 17 of 29:
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Dec 10 02:31 UTC 2003 |
8D
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krj
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response 18 of 29:
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Dec 10 17:52 UTC 2003 |
Here's a theory you can boot around: Public schools were badly damaged
by the feminist movement.
Before the 1970s, teaching and nursing were among the very few professions
which were wide open for talented women. Because the public schools
had a more-or-less captive labor supply, schools didn't have to pay
competitive salaries -- teachers, mostly women, couldn't get into
other, better-paying fields. Once the rest of the economy opened
to women, education lost its hold on the supply of talented women.
I keep seeing solutions which I characterize as "fiat economics:"
attempting to declare that teachers will become better.
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gull
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response 19 of 29:
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Dec 10 18:53 UTC 2003 |
Re resp:10: Anyone can become rich if they stop being lazy. Rush
Limbaugh told me so. ;> (No, I don't believe it either.)
Re resp:18: I think that's pretty much dead-on.
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slynne
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response 20 of 29:
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Dec 10 20:36 UTC 2003 |
Yes. The funny thing is that you often see "shortages" in both nursing
and teaching because the powers that be arent willing to pay the new
market wage for those fields even *years* after women started getting
into other things.
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anderyn
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response 21 of 29:
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Dec 10 20:40 UTC 2003 |
I don't know about perseverance and intelligence being the only prerequisites
for a high salary. I *certainly* have the intelligence, and perseverance, but
I don't make a high salary. Of course, the fact that I don't want to leave
the job I have to take a step into the unknown and probably much more
stressful world of new things has something to do with that, but I have always
felt that loyalty and stability have points in their favor as well.
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gull
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response 22 of 29:
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Dec 10 20:42 UTC 2003 |
I'm not really sure why the free market fails in these cases. Shouldn't
wages "automatically" rise as supply tightens?
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klg
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response 23 of 29:
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Dec 10 20:52 UTC 2003 |
(Assuming a perfectly competitive market and if the purchasers are
willing and able to pay more.)
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slynne
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response 24 of 29:
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Dec 10 21:07 UTC 2003 |
When it comes to chronic shortages, yes...the free market should cause
wages to rise. However, there are other solutions. In nursing you see a
lot of duties that used to be done by registered nurses now being done
by people with less training which in a way has reduced the demand for
nurses.
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tod
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response 25 of 29:
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Dec 10 21:28 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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twenex
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response 26 of 29:
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Dec 10 21:30 UTC 2003 |
Y'all forgot the Old Boy Network.
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