19-40

Author Message

22 new of 40 responses total.

response 19 of 40:

Mar 5 19:21 UTC 1999

Hm, my resp:18 looks pretty good in Netscape. However, it looks a bit
crappy in Picospan. I'd say that Backtalk needs to do reasonable
transliteration of character entities in preparing the Picospan version
of a response. For example, substitute "ue" for "&uuml;", "cent" for
"&cent;", "1/2" for "&frac12;", etc.

remmers

response 20 of 40:

Mar 5 19:31 UTC 1999

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party. The quick red fox jumped over the lazy brown dog, etc. etc. etc. Four score and seven years ago. The end.

remmers

response 21 of 40:

Mar 5 19:32 UTC 1999

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party. The quick red fox jumped over the lazy brown dog, etc. etc. etc.

Four score and seven years ago.

The end.

remmers

response 22 of 40:

Mar 5 19:33 UTC 1999

<remmers gains insight into the difference between "Pure HTML" and "lazy
HTML">

janc

response 23 of 40:

Mar 5 20:20 UTC 1999

The difference isn't much right now.  The only thing "lazy HTML" does
differently is translate blank lines in to <P> directives.  My basic
concept was that with "lazy HTML" you should be able to mostly forget
that you are entering HTML, and just throw in tags now and then for
little things here and there without too much of a "Whoops, I forgot I
was entering HTML" effect.  It needs work, and it may be in impossible
concept.

The room for improvement in the plain-text conversion process is vast. 
There are real questions about how far you want to go with this.  I
don't think Steve is eager to rewrite lynx.

One thing I think would be neat would be to translate
<STRONG>text</STRONG> into t^Hte^Hex^Hxt^Ht, so the Picospan pager could
turn it into bold text for terminals that support that.  Similarly <EM>
and <UL> text could be converted into _^Ht_^He_^Hx_^Ht type things.

I'd also like it if <A> tags were translated into something like
[LINK http://www.grex.org], giving the URL.  Also <IMG> tags should
give the URL of the image (or the ALT text?  or both?).

Luckily, this is all Steve's code, so I can wish for things without
having to program them myself.

remmers

response 24 of 40:

Mar 5 21:32 UTC 1999

I like the "lazy HTML" concept. Something else you might consider is
translating the *....* ascii emphasis convention to "<em>..</em>" or
"<strong>..</strong>" containers in the HTML version and _^Ht_(etc)
sequences in the plain-text version.

I think that plain-text conversion should do something with character
entities besides dumping them raw. One of the big plusses for HTML
support in a conferencing program, it seems to me, is the capability one
has of including characters that are not part of the 7-bit ascii set:
characters from foreign alphabets and special symbols like the circled-C
copyright. It'd be nice if people could do that and still have the
plain-text version come out looking reasonable.

hhsrat

response 25 of 40:

Mar 7 01:00 UTC 1999

if you have shipped something by UPS, you can track it

Just checking

hhsrat

response 26 of 40:

Mar 7 01:01 UTC 1999

guess not

janc

response 27 of 40:

Mar 7 14:02 UTC 1999

The plain text generation code is all Steve's so I'm not the expert on what's going to happen there, but it already translates "<" and ">" into "<" and ">", so I would think that adding more would be easy. I could probably sneak in there and do it myself.

janc

response 28 of 40:

Mar 7 15:33 UTC 1999

All right, here's a list of every little goofy symbol code I know of and some possible text translations for each. Some of the symbols may not be supported by your browse (IE seems to do more of these than Netscape).

code HTML Text Translation
" " "
& & &
< < <
> > gt;
  space
¡ ¡ !
¿ ¿ ?
¢ ¢ cent
£ £ pound
¤ ¤
¥ ¥ yen
¦ ¦ |
§ § section
¨ ¨
© © (c)
ª ª
º º
« « <<
» » >>
¬ ¬ ~
 -
® ® (R)
¯ ¯ -
° ° degrees
± ± +/-
¹ ¹ ^1
² ² ^2
³ ³ ^3
´ ´ '
µ µ micron
¶ ¶ |P
· · *
× × x
÷ ÷ /
¸ ¸
¼ ¼ 1/4
½ ½ 1/2
¾ ¾ 3/4
À À A
Á Á A
Â Â A
Ã Ã A
Ä Ä A
Å Å A
Æ Æ AE
Ç Ç C
È È E
É É E
Ê Ê E
Ë Ë E
Ì Ì I
Í Í I
Î Î I
Ï Ï I
Ð Ð
Ñ Ñ N
Ò Ò O
Ó Ó O
Ô Ô O
Õ Õ O
Ö Ö O
Ø Ø O
Ù Ù U
Ú Ú U
Û Û U
Ü Ü U
Ý Ý Y
Þ Þ
ß ß sz
à à a
á á a
â â a
ã ã a
ä ä a
å å a
æ æ ae
ç ç c
è è e
é é e
ê ê e
ë ë e
ì ì i
í í i
î î i
ï ï i
ð ð
ñ ñ n
ò ò o
ó ó o
ô ô o
õ õ o
ö ö o
ø ø o
ù ù u
ú ú u
û ü u
ý ý y
þ þ
ÿ ÿ y
&Oelig; &Oelig; OE
&oelig; œ oe
&Scaron; Š S
&scaron; š s
&Yuml; Ÿ Y
&fnof; ƒ f
&circ; ˆ ^
&tilde; ˜ ~
&zwnj; ‌ |
&zwj; ‍ |
– – -
— — -
‘ ‘ `
’ ’ '
&sbquo; ‚ '
“ “ "
” “ "
&dagger; †
&Dagger; ‡
• • *
… … ...
&permil; ‰
′ ′ '
″ ″ "
&lsaquo; ‹ <
&rsaquo; › >
&oline; ‾
&frasl; ⁄ /
Α Α Alpha
Β Β Beta
Γ Γ Gamma
Δ Δ Delta
Ε Ε Epsilon
Ζ Ζ Zeta
Η Η Eta
Θ Θ Theta
Ι Ι Iota
Κ Κ Kappa
Λ Λ Lambda
Μ Μ Mu
Ν Ν Nu
Ξ Ξ Xi
Ο Ο Omicron
Π Π Pi
Ρ Ρ Rho
Σ Σ Sigma
Τ Τ Tau
Υ Υ Upsilon
Φ Φ Phi
Χ Χ Chi
Ψ Ψ Psi
Ω Ω Omega
α α alpha
β β beta
γ γ gamma
δ δ delta
ε ε epsilon
ζ ζ zeta
η η eta
θ θ theta
ι ι iota
κ κ kappa
λ λ lambda
μ μ mu
ν ν nu
ξ ξ xi
ο ο omicron
π π pi
ρ ρ rho
σ σ sigma
τ τ tau
υ υ upsilon
φ φ phi
χ χ chi
ψ ψ psi
ω ω omega
&thetasym; ϑ theta
&upsih; ϒ upsilon
ϖ ϖ Pi
&weierp; ℘ P
&image; ℑ I
&real; ℜ R
&alefsym; ℵ alef
← ← <-
↑ ↑ ^
→ → ->
↓ ↓ v
↔ ↔ <->
&crarr; ↵ <return>
⇐ ⇐ <-
&uArr; ⇑ ^
⇒ ⇒ ->
&dArr; ⇓ v
⇔ ⇔ <->
∀ ∀
∂ ∂
∃ ∃
∅ ∅
∇ ∇
∈ ∈
∉ ∉
&ni; ∋
∏ ∏
∑ ∑
− − -
&lowast; ∗ *
√ √
&prop; ∝ ~
∞ ∞ -
&angle; ∠
&and; ∧
&and; ∧
&or; ∨
∩ ∩
∪ ∪
∫ ∫
&there4; ∴
&sim; ∼ ~
&cong; ≅
≈ ≈
≠ ≠
&equiv; ≡
≤ ≤
≥ ≥
⊂ ⊂
⊃ ⊃
&sube; ⊆
&supe; ⊇
&oplus; ⊕
&otimes; ⊗
&perp; ⊥
⋅ ⋅ :
&lceil; ⌈
&rceil; ⌉
&lfloor; ⌊
&rfloor; ⌋
&lang; ⟨ <
&rang; ⟩ >
&loz; ◊
&spades; ♠
&clubs; ♣
&hearts; ♥
&diams; ♦

janc

response 29 of 40:

Mar 7 15:35 UTC 1999

Hmmm...my netscape doesn't do most of that last part of that table. 
Dunno how much sense it makes to support codes that most browsers don't
support.

The conversion of tables to plain text is, of course, pretty awful.
Maybe we could at least turn <TR> tags into newlines.

remmers

response 30 of 40:

Mar 7 18:02 UTC 1999

Yes, very disappointing - Netscape doesn't even do Greek letters. Changing the encoding (in the "View/Encoding" menu) doesn't help a bit. Next time I'm running Windows, I'll see if MSIE does any better. It might, actually. My impression is that MSIE is a bit ahead of Netscape in support for national alphabets.

Still, I expect that in the future, browsers will support those character entities. So you'll be a little ahead of the game if you build in support now.

There are standard "ascii" transliterations of a number of foreign characters, for example u-umlaut (ü) is transcribed as 'ue'. I can ask my linguist cohorts if there's a table of the standard transliterations somewhere.

remmers

response 31 of 40:

Mar 7 18:05 UTC 1999

This is a list:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Sugar is sweet
And so are you.

remmers

response 32 of 40:

Mar 7 18:06 UTC 1999

Oh coolness. The plain-text version of a list is sensibly formatted.

remmers

response 33 of 40:

Mar 7 20:05 UTC 1999

Heh. My prediction about MSIE vs. Netscape was correct. MSIE displays a great many more of the symbols in Jan's table, including the Greek letters, a number of the math symbols, and special characters like em- dash, en-dash, and backwards and forwards single and double quotes.

hhsrat

response 34 of 40:

Mar 7 22:55 UTC 1999

can the new version of backtalk support inline images (as long as they're on another server)?

Of course, the easiest way for me to tell would be to test Vladimir Konstantinov

if the image shows up then it worked

hhsrat

response 35 of 40:

Mar 7 22:56 UTC 1999

btw, the image is Vladimir Konstantinov, Detroit Red Wing who was 
injured in the Limo accident after winning the 1997 Stanley Cup.

other

response 36 of 40:

Mar 9 02:55 UTC 1999

he looks a lot like sonjai

remmers

response 37 of 40:

Mar 14 21:12 UTC 1999

<embed src="http://www.stormi.com/midi2/ragscale.mid" width=16 height=16
autostart=true><br>
<bgsound src="http://www.stormi.com/midi2/ragscale.mid" loop=1><br>

remmers

response 38 of 40:

Mar 14 21:13 UTC 1999

other

response 39 of 40:

Mar 15 02:37 UTC 1999

ahh, sweet music to write responses by...

hhsrat

response 40 of 40:

Apr 4 05:28 UTC 1999

Sounds good.

0-19

19-40

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