|
|
| Author |
Message |
| 10 new of 191 responses total. |
jep
|
|
response 182 of 191:
| 
Feb 28 04:02 UTC 2013 |
You should only need 1 GFCI plug on a circuit. It will shut off the
whole circuit if there's a short.
|
keesan
|
|
response 183 of 191:
|
Feb 28 14:09 UTC 2013 |
Yes, the first one in series should be GFCI.
The inspector wants us to add some very large screws, but Jim called the nail
company and the stainless ring-shank nails we used to attach the band joists
can hold 568 lb each (shear strength) which is about 4600 lb per joist, 10'
long and 16" apart. We did our original calculations assuming the stainless
nails had the same strength as plain steel ones, and they are even stronger,
and we doubled the required number of nails from 2 to 4 every 16". Jim phoned
the manufacturer. They now make spiral shank nails even stronger.
Yesterday was a snow day for Roger, today may also be, leaving us time to work
on drawings and other urgent paperwork. We goofed off last night - went to
a lecture on history of trumpets - and I was able to sleep 7 hours instead
of 5-6. Got to get back to the paperwork.
A neighbor from a few blocks away emailed that he shoveled my walk yesterday,
also that of my next door neighbor (who was going to shovel mine) and an older
neighbor on the corner whose snow we usually shovel. Last time this neighbor
came to shovel, my other next door neighbors had beaten him to it. Jim's next
door neighbors (two boys) had done his walk so we did a few other walks. A
LOT of people simply left all the slush on their walks yesterday, which will
freeze to solid ice this week and make transportation really difficult.
Branches down all over due to the weight of t he wet snow.
Bathtubs are 30 not 32, but we also need 3/4" for wall surface and something
hopefully for door trim. The other end of the bathroom is 33" wide. Moving
the bathtub means also moving the timers, and a longer plumbing run of copper
but shorter of drain PVC.
|
keesan
|
|
response 184 of 191:
|
Feb 28 16:41 UTC 2013 |
We have two light switches in metal gang boxes with nailing (screwing)
brackets on the sides, which are too shallow. Can't find similar deeper ones
- the brackets for what we found attach to the fronts not the sides of the
studs, and wrap around them, and our studs in that location are sideways.
Jim suggested hammering the brackets flat, but then they would still get in
the way of the wallboard (cement not drywall).
We can use the blue plastic boxes, 4x4, but I would prefer narrower metal
single-gang.
We have two 3.5" deep metal gang boxes not designed to screw to a stud -
the screws connecting the sides to the tops get in the way, but we could carve
out a bit of wood for the screws, take the boxes apart, attach the sides, then
put them back together. Take off the side not attached to the stud because
the screw on the attached side will be embedded.
These are 'old work' boxes with ears that can be attached to the wallboard,
so we could temporarily attach them to something else (turn 90 deg and screw
to a stud?).
Next problem - there will not be enough headroom for a shower if we move the
tub to where the door does not hit. One option is to put a separate shower
where the tub was going to be, in which case we need to move the water heater,
maybe to the cellar, losing its heat in winter. Another option is to shower
sitting down on a shower seat, or standing over the floor drain in the middle
of the floor and using a handheld shower head.
Roger and Jim are discussing how to run the plumbing from cellar to upstairs.
We had three holes for this purpose in an exterior wall shaft, and used one
for wiring instead already. I lean towards water heater in bathroom and
shower seated in tub, or in mid floor, with hand-held shower head.
There will be an upstairs bathroom some day with lots of room to stand up in
the tub. The downstairs bathroom is supposed to be handicap accessible thus
the shower-in-middle-of-room (sitting in wheelchair if necessary).
|
keesan
|
|
response 185 of 191:
|
Mar 1 01:22 UTC 2013 |
Jim is researching rules about height of ceiling above tub. Michigan
residential code does not mention any, but some places required 80" or 5'6"
above the tub floor. Or a 24x30" area a certain height. Where we might put
mine is half slanty overhead but I could easily shower sitting. Or standing
over the floor drain with a hand-held shower. Jim wants me to not have a tub
or shower stall. I had no tub in my apt for 28 years. Actually he wants me
to have one only upstairs - I don't know when I will ever have the energy to
finish the upstairs. Or whether I will have the strength to climb the stairs
by then.
A shower stall is now required to be 30x30" or even larger, or if 25" in one
direction at least 1300 sq in. Inside dimension. With 22" opening.
Bathtubs have to have temperature limited to 120F. I have a mixing valve left
over from dialysis that lets you choose your own temperature, which I hope
is acceptable, so that I can set it lower.
We are done running wires to upstairs - what is left can go along the ceiling
and walls, and through walls. Downstairs we need to put thermostats in two
walls which are not yet built, and find a way to run wire to outlets along
the exterior walls from the interior walls, or a crawlspace junction box, in
two rooms. And replace a bunch of electrical boxes with bigger ones.
And decide where the bathtub and water heater are going so we can wire for
the water heater with relay and various timers.
We need to put in upstairs GFCI bath and laundry outlets so that the
downstairs ones which they feed will work, in electric boxes which go on walls
which are not yet there.
The inspector wants some engineer to approve our stainless ring-shank nails.
Or make us put two large screws in between two nails near the ends of studs
which might split from all the fasteners, which nails are 3" apart.
I got back by 8 pm and had time to cook and eat supper. ;=)
|
slynne
|
|
response 186 of 191:
|
Mar 1 01:44 UTC 2013 |
Sounds like you are making good progress!
|
keesan
|
|
response 187 of 191:
|
Mar 1 02:02 UTC 2013 |
Nice to know at least two people are still reading this.
Jim drew me a ledger, which is a board nailed or screwed against a wall or
joist that something else sits on, which means if you put a lot of weight on
what sits on it, the joist can pull the top of the ledge away from what it
is attached to, therefore you need screws. We don't have ledgers so should
not need screws. Jim's next idea is to call the company that makes the joist
hangers and see if they have any approved constructions, then email his nephew
the structural engineer.
I researched live and dead weights. 40 psf (pounds per square foot) for
non-sleeping rooms. Our nails can hold 300 psf. LiveDead load - use actual
figures. Wall - with cement board both sides, about 3 lb/sf. Wall over
joists supporting bathroom - 5x8' = 40x3 = 120 lb. Floor over joists
supporting bathroom - maybe 4 lb/sf (includes wood as well as tile and cement
board). A 5' wide room with joists at 16" has about 4 joists. 50 sf floor
= 200 lb. So 120 lb wall, 200 lb floor, on 4 joists that have nails in them
that can support about 4600 lb per joist, or 20,000 lb. Add in a cast iron
tub full of water at 700 lb, about 1000 lb. The inspector wants two screws
with shear strength about 1200 lb each instead of four nails at 550 lb each.
|
tod
|
|
response 188 of 191:
|
Mar 1 05:04 UTC 2013 |
those stainless nails sound pretty strong for nailing up, jesus...what's
the problem
|
keesan
|
|
response 189 of 191:
|
Mar 1 16:02 UTC 2013 |
The problem is that code now requires screws not nails for ledgers and these
are technically ledgers. Ledgers are normally boards that something else
rests on top of and thus the tops could be pulled away from what they are
attached to. Ours cannot because there are joists holding them in place.
The Fastenmaster company tech support said NOT to use Ledgerlok because they
will split the 2xs, they are only for girders, but we could use Headlok which
are skinnier and longer. He thought we would need 3 instead of 2 screws.
The comparative strength is 226 vs 233, which is nearly identical, so i asked
the inspector if we could use two of these. Tech support said to predrill
though the website says not to bother.
|
keesan
|
|
response 190 of 191:
|
Mar 1 18:40 UTC 2013 |
Three of us spent the morning debating where to put water heater and bathtub.
We could move a doorway 1.5" and narrow it 2" and put the bathtub where you
can legally stand up in it but that reduces wheelchair access, so we decided
to leave it under the slope where it is legally a bathtub not a shower and
then our architect advised against this because it would require a plumbing
wall sitting on top of the floor membrane so she wants to rush out tomorrow
and help with the decision. So we got nothing built today. If we move the
tub we have to rewire between two timers and decide where to put the relay
again and maybe build another wall. Easier to move a doorway? Remove two
studs and add one stud.
|
keesan
|
|
response 191 of 191:
|
Mar 1 23:05 UTC 2013 |
I think we will try to saw off two 2-stud posts and move them over, AFTER
unwiring a light, two switches, removing wires from holes (moving a hole too),
redoing the top of the door opening, adding two more studs to the side of the
door.... A few days' work but it puts the bathtub in the right place and
makes plumbing and water heater wiring better and easier after that. This
gives us 31 inches of wall plus 1" of doorjamb for 30" of bathtub.
Roger says you can't put a bathtub where someone can reach a light switch or
outlet while standing in the tub (even with GFCI?) and is not sure whether
it is legal to reach one if you are using a hand-held shower, and in any event
you should not be getting them wet.
Planning further ahead would have saved a lot of time.
|