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| Author |
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| 25 new of 226 responses total. |
dbratman
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response 180 of 226:
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Jan 3 21:16 UTC 2001 |
Anyone who dislikes Enya is not going to get an argument from me, even
though I do like her. But as Mike observes, there's a huge difference
between Enya and Tesh or Yanni. They are mushy; she is not.
Happyboy: Yes, Maire is a better singer than Enya. But her band is no
longer better. Clannad, too, turned to mush, and were only good when
they were obscure - the purest example of selling out that I know of in
music. ("Selling out" means not just "becoming famous", but losing
whatever made your fame justified in the process.)
Ken: I have a couple early Clannad albums on CD, including "Dulaman"
which was my introduction to the band. The transfer quality on that
one did not strike me as good. But I don't think I have the first
album. My favorite, I recall, was no. 2, which I don't think I've ever
seen on CD.
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mcnally
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response 181 of 226:
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Jan 3 22:14 UTC 2001 |
I've heard people speak well of the early Clannad albums. My only
experience with the band was through a "best of" CD that I checked
out of the library. It pushed nearly every "bad music" button I have,
which is something I wasn't expecting..
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anderyn
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response 182 of 226:
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Jan 4 00:20 UTC 2001 |
Mmm. I don't have any Clannad after "Sirius", I don't think. I'm not sure they
are putting out new albums. My favourite is probably the live album they did
early on, although the music for "Legend" (the soundtrack to the Robin Hood
series) still holds a place of honor in my heart.
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dbratman
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response 183 of 226:
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Jan 4 07:06 UTC 2001 |
I don't know which compilation album of Clannad's you heard, Mike, but
as far as I can tell from a discography online, all such albums consist
mostly if not entirely of stuff from after they "sold out."
Both "Sirius" and "Legend" are also post-sellouts.
I've heard people describe both those albums as "early" Clannad, but
that's like describing "Revolver" as early Beatles. The major change
in their style, like it or not, came before then.
The early Clannad albums are "Clannad", "Clannad 2","Dulaman", "Clannad
in Concert", and "Crann Ull". Opinions differ about "Fuaim", which is
transitional (and which is the only Clannad album with Enya on it). No
others (unless you include a bootleg from the "Clannad in Concert" tour
which I've never heard). One Clannad website, www.jtwinc.com/clannad,
defines the above as "Traditional" and the later albums
as "Electronic", but that's just the beginning of the difference.
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ashke
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response 184 of 226:
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Jan 4 16:41 UTC 2001 |
Okay... Now I'm gonna get pissy. I don't believe in the "selling out"
principle. I didn't know of Clannad UNTIL I saw the Robin Hoods (and I think
that michael praed kicks jason connery's butt any day, thank you very much)
and from there I found both their music and enyas. So if you define selling
out a change in their music to appeal to a more mass audience, then oh well.
without that, I would have never found "Siuil a Ruin" and other songs. I know
that people get very attached to the music a certian way, but I don't fault
other bands for changing or expanding. I'm a fan of celtic music, but it's
nice to hear something different, like the poppy changes that the Corrs are
doing, or even the Chieftans with...everyone.
I'm wondering, and it's an honest question, if people call it "selling out"
because they don't like the changes, or because of the following of people
that generally arise from these pieces...
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eeyore
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response 185 of 226:
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Jan 4 16:51 UTC 2001 |
I like the Chieftans with...everyone stuff. :) The Corrs are ok, but they
don't do much for me. Clannad is okay, but I just never got into it. Enya
sounded too fake. I'm massively hooked beyond reason on Seamus Egan and
Solas.
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krj
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response 186 of 226:
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Jan 4 19:31 UTC 2001 |
David in resp:180 :: I have cds of "Clannad 2" from Shanachie and
"Dulaman" from the Irish label Gael-Linn. I'd have to find them and
compare, but my gut feeling is that the Shanachie reissues are likely
to sound distinctly inferior to the Gael-Linn ones, since Gael-Linn
presumably has the master tapes and Shanachie has been shoddy in their
reissues for Steeleye Span, a band from the same era and side of the Atlantic
as Clannad. But I don't think any of the 1970s Clannad albums are likely
to be sonic wonders.
ashke in resp:184 :: I am of one mind with David on the career history
of Clannad. Usually the way I express it is, I hope they enjoy all
the money. Perhaps our disappointment is greater because we lived
through it; the early albums were contemporary releases for us,
and after they signed to RCA (now BMG) there was a tremendous sense
of disillusionment as the band abandoned most of what made them
special to us. Clannad was one of my two or three favorite artists
back around 1979, and I can still recall how it felt when I first
heard the Robin Hood material.
Since Mike has previously expressed some antipathy towards Irish
folk music, I wouldn't expect him to like Clannad of any era.
Megan, however, has traditionalist leanings and I think she would
probably like the albums David described as the early work.
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anderyn
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response 187 of 226:
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Jan 4 19:54 UTC 2001 |
Solas is great. I'll write more later.
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ashke
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response 188 of 226:
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Jan 4 20:08 UTC 2001 |
Okay, but can you explain then, what you thought they abandoned? I have heard
some of the earlier stuff, and I find it all consistant with a
progression...they can't stay the same forever...
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mcnally
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response 189 of 226:
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Jan 4 20:20 UTC 2001 |
Celtic folk music definitely isn't my favorite kind (I'd go so far as
to agree with Ken that I am closer to antipathy than neutrality on the
subject) but every once in a while I like to double-check music that
I might have written off initially for whatever reason (in this case,
because it came from a genre that I don't particularly care for..)
Some of the stuff I'd borrowed from Ken at one point or another didn't
exactly thrill me, but I could see how people who liked the style might
enjoy it. (For instance, Altan, which seems to make fairly accessible
and probably quite enjoyable music in that style..) The Clannad album
I tried was another matter (for the record, I looked it up and the album
in question was "Anam".. I'd thought it was some sort of "greatest hits"
collection but now I'm not sure..)
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eeyore
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response 190 of 226:
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Jan 4 20:47 UTC 2001 |
You know, I picekd up a Altan album (a double disk best of/live album), based
on everything that I had heard. It's not bad, in fact I'm sure that they are
quite good. But oddly enough, they do absolutely nothing for me. That kinda
surprised me, actually....but I suspect that it might have to do with the fact
that not alot of it was sung in English....and if I can't sing to it, I tend
to write it off.
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micklpkl
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response 191 of 226:
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Jan 5 00:23 UTC 2001 |
Interesting discussion, folks. I'm enjoying it.
(big hint for Twila) I don't have any Clannad, early or late, save for ROGHA
(The best of Clannad). I got that this year, and the only track is really like
is "Newgrange" which was copyrighted in 1983. Is that pre-sellout? I don't
think it really matters to me. OTOH I own almost everything Enya has ever
recorded, including several CD singles --- one of which has a must-play
Christmas song, Silent Night in Gaelic. Her voice affects me internally,
somehow. I do not have, nor have I heard her sing with Clannad, on FUAIM, was
it? Perhaps I will request that on one of the mp3 groups.
This year I have discovered and devoured more Celtic flavoured music than I
ever knew existed! :) I did not care for Altan, at least not the few songs
I heard. I don't think it's the language thing, at least not for me, because
I sing right along, just pronouncing what I think whoever-it-is is singing.
I have discovered many more that I do love: Dervish, Capercaille, Bohinta,
Danu, Lunasu, etc. etc.
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ashke
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response 192 of 226:
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Jan 5 13:47 UTC 2001 |
I agree, Mickey...I love Enya, and the album Orinoco Flow puts me into a
relaxed trance...right around Storms in Africa. <needs to find her cd when
she gets home...>
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micklpkl
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response 193 of 226:
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Jan 5 14:29 UTC 2001 |
To be accurate, that album is entitled WATERMARK.
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ashke
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response 194 of 226:
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Jan 5 14:35 UTC 2001 |
<hangs her head in half-asleep shame and doesn't mention that she hasn't
listened to it in over 2 years....>
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eeyore
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response 195 of 226:
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Jan 5 15:56 UTC 2001 |
(Meg thinks she's going to wander off today and try to find a Chieftiens w/
everybody CD today.....hmmmmm........)
You know, I can't wait for Solas to get back into town,...
And if I remember, I'll try to take the Altan to work....see about giving it
another chance.
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albaugh
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response 196 of 226:
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Jan 5 19:40 UTC 2001 |
My intro to Clannad was the Dulaman album, and there is GREAT STUFF on it.
My latest acquisition is a CD (I think it's called "Themes"), which has some
interesting textures on it, but is definitely "commerical".
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micklpkl
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response 197 of 226:
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Jan 5 20:06 UTC 2001 |
I just got notice that Green Linnet (www.greenlinnet.com) is having a Winter
Clearance Sale, on over 150 of their Celtic titles. Looks like CDs are $10
and cassettes (anybody still listen to those?) for $8.50.
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anderyn
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response 198 of 226:
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Jan 6 02:43 UTC 2001 |
ohMiGawd... I am going to have to check their website. Wow.
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micklpkl
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response 199 of 226:
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Jan 6 03:03 UTC 2001 |
Yes, I know --- Wow. :) I took a brief look through the list, and found lots
of Tannahill Weavers that I don't have and would like to get, at the price.
Gulp.
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dbratman
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response 200 of 226:
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Jan 6 04:22 UTC 2001 |
Ashke 184: It's a fair question; but cries of "oh no, my favorite band
sold out" are often misinterpreted (by those who like the new stuff) as
merely code for "I resent that other people have discovered my hidden
favorite." That's not true for me. I was unspeakably delighted when
one of my hidden modern-classical favorites, Gorecki's Third Symphony,
was discovered by a large audience. And the only band besides Clannad
that dropped like a stone off my favorites list into the dust heap
didn't sell out. (Its genius retired, and it fell apart without him.)
I reserve the term "sell out" for jumping from obscurity to great
popularity as a direct result of losing the very quality that made them
good in the first place.
Now it's my opinion that they lost that quality, of course, but, pray,
who else's opinion am I supposed to hold?
If you like the newer Clannad, then the only response can be "How nice
for you." Note that I took no offense when the first response to my
Enya essay read simply "New Age craap." I thought that a deeply
ignorant remark, but I cannot argue with the taste of the person who
made it.
I'm beginning to think that most of the people in this discussion have
never actually heard any early Clannad, so no wonder they seem to be
groping around a bit in making judgments. (No, Mickey, 1983 is not
early Clannad, but just after the "sell out", and I vaguely
remember "Newgrange" as one of the tracks I found particularly
disappointing, as it was claimed to be good by those who liked the new
sound.)
Ken: My copy of the Dulaman CD is from Shanachie, so that may explain
it. I haven't been disappointed in their Steeleye releases, but
Steeleye's rockier sound may be less susceptible to bad engineering
than the extreme delicacy of early Clannad.
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micklpkl
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response 201 of 226:
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Jan 6 05:07 UTC 2001 |
Well, I am truly sorry I commented without really knowing the whole story.
I'll keep my fingers silenced until I can remedy that situation.
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dbratman
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response 202 of 226:
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Jan 6 15:09 UTC 2001 |
Mickey: No, don't be sorry you commented. You asked a question
("Is 'Newgrange' early Clannad?") to which the answer was no.
I do hope you can hear some early Clannad some time, because as someone
who likes Enya but not late Clannad, your tastes are so far with mine.
Be cautious about judging from "Fuaim", because 1) Enya only appears in
a minor role on it (she is lead singer on one song, I don't remember
which offhand), and 2) it _is_ a transitional album, and opinions
differ. I count it as the last good Clannad album, but Ken at the time
of its release was strongly of the opinion that it was the first bad
one.
Unfortunately it appears that the CD re-releases of early Clannad don't
always give a fair impression of them either, because of poor
transfers. The one other suggestion I can make is to note that you
like Capercaille - their earliest 3-4 albums (I haven't heard later
ones, and understand they're different) sound a lot like early Clannad
in general terms. But I didn't keep up with Capercaille because, nice
as they were, they lacked the full sublime ethereal beauty of early
Clannad, and which is, IMHO, the only thing that Enya has inherited
from the band.
Somebody uptopic defended the newer Clannad sound on the grounds that
bands have to change. That's a silly argument, akin to defending GWB's
policies on the grounds that Clinton had to leave office anyway. Some
bands change a lot, some don't change much. Some change for the worse,
some for the better, others in ways that aren't better or worse, just
different. The question is, which kind of change was this one?
In any case, Clannad had made five albums without changing, so it's
hardly inevitable.
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albaugh
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response 203 of 226:
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Jan 6 15:41 UTC 2001 |
And there's different kind of change. A band that is particularly good at
something, then changes to something generic or of lesser quality to make a
buck, then maybe you can criticize the band for "selling out". But a band
or artist that just wants to go in a different direction, try something new,
well that's their right, and shouldn't be subject to criticism. Take Linda
Ronstadt: I really liked her country/rock ("early") stuff. Then she decided
she wanted to to big band, then Mexican folk. I really didn't care for it
that much, but respected her decision, since she certainly didn't go that way
to "sell out".
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dbratman
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response 204 of 226:
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Jan 11 01:15 UTC 2001 |
True. It depends what the direction is.
In Clannad's case, they wanted to do the same thing (in fact, several
pieces on their early "sellout" albums are re-makes), only soggier. If
they'd just lost their touch, that would be something else, but this
was clearly deliberate.
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