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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 170 responses total. |
mynxcat
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response 18 of 170:
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Jan 7 20:04 UTC 2004 |
Ryan, I don't see what you suggest is happenning - singling out
staffers and harrassing them so they quit. The only resignors I'm
aware of were cross and valerie. In both cases, the reasons for
resigning seem to be different, irrelevant to what the canadian posse
do or don't do. Heck cross even returned as a staffer (and very
thankful we are :) )
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albaugh
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response 19 of 170:
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Jan 7 20:20 UTC 2004 |
The request in #0 should first be taken up with the fw's of the confernces
in which the items were posted.
Of course, soon the fw's are going to (should be) asking for a broader,
clearer grex policy about when they should(n't) be killing entire items,
either on their own or in response to an item-enterer's request.
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aruba
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response 20 of 170:
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Jan 7 20:27 UTC 2004 |
I think Ryan has a good point in #13. I think that there are consequences
for constant harrassment of staff, and if Dan and Valerie are the only ones
you've seen act dramatically about it, that doesn't mean it doesn't affect
the rest of us. I find myself wondering, constantly, why I spend so much
time enabling people who really deserve to be ignored. Eventually, it will
probably get to me.
Let me say that another way. I think a number of Grexers choose to
participate here because they feel they can be assholes without any
consequences. (Why they enjoy being assholes, I don't know, but it's
undeniably the case.) But there *are* consequences, and ultimately, such
behavior will likely kill Grex, because only other people of like mind
will want to participate, and no one will want to administer a place whose
purpose has become the promotion of such behavior. The death of Grex is
also, perhaps, what some people want - another desire I've never
understood.
In case anyone hasn't noticed, we have a big shortage of staff already.
That's why we were able to buy a new machine, but so far haven't been able
to get it in service. THere has been plenty of finger pointing, but the
bottom line is that a lot of staff members don't feel as compelled to
serve Grex as they did in the old days. I think the fact that such
service results in being abused has a lot to do with it.
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mynxcat
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response 21 of 170:
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Jan 7 20:58 UTC 2004 |
I understand that sentiment Mark. I agree that there are assholes out
there who seem to be making it harder and harder for staff to want to
continue serving grex. And I see your point that staff could be
straining under "attacks" as they perceive it. I guess I find it hard
to understand why what a couple of boys insist on posting over and
over again would really affect staff's morale, especially when it's
open knowledge that they're alone in their views. Maybe there's
something there that I don't see.
The case in point is a rare occasion when people have spoken up,
because believe it or not, the Canadians and jp2 have a point. (Though
Jamie has been yelling so much, he's given me a headache)
This also brings me to another point I've been trying to make. Grexers
seem to be happy with the status quo. They know each other, they
understand what other grexers are saying and the like interacting with
them. Nice. So nice, that they've neglected to really look to
expanding participation. So when a couple of assholes comes along, and
attracts a couple more, and they get in a couple more, eventually you
are going to be overrun by them. It's all very well to be happy with
your little world, but unless you do something about expanding, pretty
soon you're going to be run out. I know, we've discussed this before.
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naftee
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response 22 of 170:
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Jan 7 21:07 UTC 2004 |
re 6 I dunno, the reference that the items were deleted was buried deep inside
the m-net agora conference.
Oh wait, you're staff. Never mind. THEY were informed.
re 20 There is a difference between harassment and genuine concern about the
situation of a GreX policy or staffer. If you can't tell the difference,
please avoid calling people assholes.
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aruba
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response 23 of 170:
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Jan 7 21:18 UTC 2004 |
It makes it very hard to attract new people to Grex when the general flavor
of the conversation is nastiness. I find it really hard to recommend Grex
to people for that reason.
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mynxcat
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response 24 of 170:
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Jan 7 21:33 UTC 2004 |
But Mark, the general flavor isn't that. At least I don't see it that
way. We have a couple of annoying characters (actually I can think of
many, many more annoying characters, but thats what grex is all about -
you take the good, you take the bad), but we have many, many more
that are very nice people, and that are enjoyable to interact with.
We're not marketing them well enough, and we let a couple of kids make
us feel like the system is going to the dogs. /shrug
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aruba
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response 25 of 170:
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Jan 7 21:42 UTC 2004 |
Well, I agree much is in the attitude. But I also think there are
consequences for being an asshole on Grex.
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mary
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response 26 of 170:
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Jan 7 21:56 UTC 2004 |
I know where you're coming from Mark, but this one isn't about
assholes. It's going to be a needed discussion where we fine
tune our feelings about ownership and censorship. Grex staff
shouldn't feel threatened.
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willcome
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response 27 of 170:
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Jan 7 22:04 UTC 2004 |
I wonder why gelinas (Joe. Joe Gelinas.) thought there was a long standing
rule allowing folks to delete their items after other folk had posted to them.
Surely, if that were the case, Valerie wouldn't have E-mailed both the staff
and the board about it.
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naftee
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response 28 of 170:
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Jan 7 22:26 UTC 2004 |
re 23 Hey, dude, you're the one who started swearing here.
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jmsaul
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response 29 of 170:
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Jan 7 22:51 UTC 2004 |
Re #27: Probably because he's never tried it. Few people have.
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willcome
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response 30 of 170:
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Jan 7 22:55 UTC 2004 |
You don't think a mail to staff and board would indicate that, at very least,
it was something unusual?
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naftee
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response 31 of 170:
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Jan 7 23:14 UTC 2004 |
Or the fact that the items simply dissapeared, without mention? Without even
the fairwitnesses of the conference knowing about their removal?
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mta
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response 32 of 170:
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Jan 8 01:35 UTC 2004 |
who says the FW didn't know?
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naftee
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response 33 of 170:
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Jan 8 02:41 UTC 2004 |
Oh, so you kept it secret too? Immediately before I posted item 68 in coop
I posted a response in the femme conference asking what happened to certain
items (they were former baby conference items). So far, there's been no
response. So either you don't read anything in the conference you're supposed
to be responsible for, or you were deliberately trying to protect valerie from
her actions which you knew were wrong.
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cmcgee
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response 34 of 170:
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Jan 8 03:14 UTC 2004 |
Pfft, maybe she was just ignoring you.
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russ
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response 35 of 170:
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Jan 8 04:08 UTC 2004 |
Re #21: That pretty much summarizes what happened to M-Net.
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gelinas
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response 36 of 170:
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Jan 8 05:13 UTC 2004 |
Re second paragraph of 12: That's why I said "From the account that
originally created the item." One of the odd things about unix systems is
that login ids get re-used. If I let "gelinas" get deleted, anyone can
claim it. And no one can prove, definitively, that the new "jgelinas"
is the old "gelinas." All protestions from "jgelinas" to the contrary.
So no, a request from "polytarp" to delete responses by "dah" should NOT
be honoured.
News flash, mynxcat: YOU are one of the annoying ones. YOU are part of
the problem. I invite you to re-read this conference, concentrating on
the responses from "mynxcat" and consider them as a third person. *JUST*
this conference; no need to torture yourself with your reponses in agora,
present or past, nor international.
Part of the function of the staff conference is to report _any_ use of
root privilegs. Allow me to repeat that: *any* use of root privileges.
So Valerie's report in the staff conference was routine, nothing out of
the out of the ordinary.
I think I have tried to use the "kill" command, and failed. I chalked
it up as an error in implementation and went on with my life.
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richard
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response 37 of 170:
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Jan 8 05:28 UTC 2004 |
I don't think grex staff should be going into individual items and deleting
one user's posts. If polytarp wants to do that, he scan go scribble them out
one by one. Otherwise each item exists as a whole, as part of the grex
collective, and for historical reasons should not be altered. Grex should
want its old conferences and the items in those conferences to be preserved
as they are so down the road they can be read as they are, not modified just
because somebody isn't comfortable with what they've said.
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gelinas
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response 38 of 170:
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Jan 8 05:33 UTC 2004 |
(This from someone who regularly argues for the wholesale deletion of
conferences? Interesting.)
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cross
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response 39 of 170:
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Jan 8 06:02 UTC 2004 |
Regarding #36; I disagree, Joe; I think Sapna has said some very insightful
things.
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willcome
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response 40 of 170:
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Jan 8 06:06 UTC 2004 |
If Grex doesn't allow me to delete my copyrighted works, I will look into
legal action.
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gelinas
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response 41 of 170:
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Jan 8 06:18 UTC 2004 |
Sure she has, some of them in this and the previous item. I stand by my
comment. And invitation.
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richard
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response 42 of 170:
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Jan 8 06:50 UTC 2004 |
polytarp, you can scribble anything you posted on grex
gelinas, I have argued for archiving dead confs and closing them. Not
deleting them outright. I don't think dead confs and live confs should be
listed together, because new users see dead confs and they think the whole
of grex is dead.
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