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| 9 new of 26 responses total. |
cyklone
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response 18 of 26:
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Feb 8 21:40 UTC 2002 |
I like that explanation. To confuse things further, I would also point out
that a lot of soul music is played on the "back" part of the beat. I am
*not* referring to the 2 and 4 that you are talking about, I mean every
beat. It's a concept that throws a lot of very experienced musicians, who
think you are either on or off the beat. In fact, there is a certain
amount of wiggle room. At the extremes, someone too far "in front" sounds
like they are rushing or pushing the beat, and someone to far "behind" can
sound like they are dragging (even though they are keeping the correct
tempo). Anyway, my observation is that funk tends to be much more on the
"front" of the beat as compared to soul.
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jaklumen
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response 19 of 26:
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Feb 9 01:20 UTC 2002 |
resp:17 Yeah, I understand Bootsy Collins is one of the funk bass
authorities. As for James Brown, the notion that his accent placement
for soul.. how do you mean 'irregular'?.. is different and usually
accompanies a faster tempo, I think, might suggest some evolution
between soul and funk. Granted, George Clinton and Parliment are
later performers, so naturally, I think their interpretation of funk
is/was probably different than Brown's.
What about Earth, Wind, and Fire? Almost forgot about them. From
what little I have heard of their best material, they were slightly on
the edge of funk leading into disco-- I think I remember Kool and the
Gang made a more abrupt shift than they did. "Shining Star"
and "Boogie On Down" are examples I am thinking as far as a EWF shift
more into disco.
Between scott and cyklone's explanation's, I think my initial
observations concerning soul and funk might not have been far off.
The combination of accent and beat placement seem to suggest a real
difference in mood between the two styles; i.e., soul sounds more
mellow, mournful, etc., and funk sounds a little peppier. With the
latter, emphasis on more accents would probably enhance such an effect.
I think emphasis on bass accompaniment probably influences the mood
further.. much of funk, but not all, uses some sort of bass guitar
instrumentation, and with the proliferation of subbass sound with the
subwoofer (I believe, tho, Infinity introduced the sub speaker in '68
or '69), the accent can further be enhanced with a low frequency sound.
With psychoacoustics and music therapy in mind, I do strictly define
beat by connections to the heartbeat-- many studies suggest the
heartbeat often changes to match the tempo (beats per minute) of music
an individual listens to, and so I suppose some sort of suggestion of
mood would have a basis in fact.
I remember Ken said Chicago used to employ some funk in their sound,
especially when they were still getting away with the name Chicago
Transit Authority. Noting that Chicago played with marrying fusion,
pop, and some folk rock style, eventually gravitating to the overdone
80's power ballad, I'm also curious how they fit in. Could the power
ballad be in any way connected to the last sound Kool and the Gang
employed, which seemed to be a float away from disco into the "pop
rock" or "lite rock" sound?
I am beginning to understand why a professor of mine suggested
musicology..
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scott
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response 20 of 26:
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Feb 9 02:44 UTC 2002 |
Bootsy, in the NPR interview, did a *great* Jame Brown vocal impersonation
to demonstrate how the accents worked. Sadly, I can't remember exactly where
the accents fell. But it was a vocal thing, not necessarily a bass thing.
Soul, at least the Motown variety, had a dominant bass guitar foundation.
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jaklumen
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response 21 of 26:
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May 20 11:05 UTC 2002 |
I did a little research, and I found the hip-hop group Digital
Underground was responsible for popularizing P-Funk samples in rap
music. Here's a review of their debut (and most notable)
recording, "Sex Packets" from Real One, as follows:
*
While hip-hop was consumed by the hardcore, noisy political rap of
Public Enemy and the gangsta rap of N.W.A., Digital Underground
sneaked out of Oakland with its bizarre, funky homage to Parliament-
Funkadelic. Building most of their music from samples P-Funk records
and developing a similarly weird sense of style and humor, highlighted
by Shock-G outrageous costumes, and the whole band's parade of alter
egoes. Of all these alter egoes, Shock-G's Humpty Hump -- a ridiculous
comical figure with a Groucho Marx nose and glasses, and a goofy,
stuttering voice -- was the most famous, especially since he was
immortalized on their breakthrough single, "The Humpty Dance." Over
the course of their career, Digital Underground has featured a
numerous members, but throughout it all, Shock-G has remained at its
core, developing the band's sound and style, which they had from the
outset, as their 1990 debut Sex Packets proved. Sex Packets was an
instant hit, thanks the loopy single "The Humpty Dance," and while
they never scaled such commercial heights ever again, their role in
popularizing George Clinton's elastic funk made them one of the most
important hip-hop groups of their era.
Shock-G (b. Gregory E. Jacobs, August 25, 1963) had spent most of his
childhood moving around the East Coast with his family, eventually
settling in the Bay Area of California. He dropped out of high school
in the late '70s and spent several years pursuing a life of crime
before eventually finishing his degree and going to college to study
music. Along with Chopmaster J, Shock G formed Digital Underground in
1987, and the duo released a single, "Underwater Rimes," that year
which went to number one in the Netherlands. In 1989, the group signed
with Tommy Boy and that summer "Doowutchyalike" became an underground
hit. By that time, Digital Underground had expanded significantly,
featuring DJ Fuze, Money-B (b. Ron Brooks), and Schmoovy-Schmoov (b.
Earl Cook). Sex Packets, the group's debut album, was released in the
spring of 1990, and "The Humpty Dance," which was rapped by Shock G's
alter ego Humpty Hump, climbed all the way to number 11 on the pop
charts, peaking at number seven on the R&B charts. With its P-Funk
samples, jazzy interludes and innovative amaglam of samples and live
instrumentation, Sex Packets received positive reviews and went
platinum by the end of the year.
Digital Underground followed Sex Packets in early 1991 with This Is An
EP Release, their first recording to feature rapper Tupac Shakur. The
EP went gold and set the stage for their second album, Sons of the P,
which was released that fall. On the strength of the gold single "Kiss
You Back," Sons of the P also went gold, but it received criticism for
its similarity to Sex Packets. By the time Digital Underground
delivered its third album, The Body Hat Syndrome in late 1993, hip-hop
had become dominated by gangsta rap, particularly the drawling G-funk
of Dr. Dre, which ironically was heavily indebted to George Clinton.
Consequently, their fan base diminished significantly, and The Body
Hat Syndrome disappeared shortly after its release. Nearly three years
later, Digital Underground returned with Future Rhythm, which spent a
mere three weeks on the charts. Who Got the Gravy? followed in 1998. ~
Stephen Thomas Erlewine, All Music Guide
*
Of course, Snoop Dogg also sampled George Clinton as well-- "What's My
Name" is essentially a cover of "Atomic Dog."
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jaklumen
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response 22 of 26:
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May 22 08:15 UTC 2002 |
Also, having done a little research on Heatwave, of "Boogie Nights"
fame, it would seem that soft funk evolved somewhat into connections
to disco, and soul would seem to be the slow-tempo counterpart to funk.
Heatwave was apparently an influence on the second sound of Kool & The
Gang. Here's Real One's notes at the artist guide again, on the album
_Central Heating_, as follows:
If you could use only one adjective to describe Heatwave's sound, it
would be "smooth." The band's romantic ballads and slow jams were the
epitome of smooth, and that adjective also describes many of their up-
tempo funk grooves. This isn't to say that Heatwave's funk lacked
grit -- it had plenty of grit, but even so, it was an undeniably
smoother style of funk than Parliament/Funkadelic, James Brown, Tower
of Power, Rick James, or the Bar-Kays. In fact, when Kool & the Gang
switched to a smoother, sleeker approach in 1979 and hired J.T. Taylor
as its new lead vocalist, Heatwave was a big influence. The Kool & the
Gang that emerged on 1979's Ladies' Night is certainly a lot more
Heatwave-like than the gutbucket, down-and-dirty Kool & the Gang
of "Jungle Boogie" and "Hollywood Swinging." And it isn't hard to hear
the parallels between Taylor and Heatwave's Johnnie Wilder. It's safe
to assume that when Kool & the Gang was reinventing itself, its
members had Too Hot to Handle and Central Heating in their
collections. With this excellent sophomore effort, Heatwave lived up
to the promise it showed on Too Hot to Handle. The invigorating funk
smash "The Groove Line" became a disco-era anthem, and the album's
other big hit, "Mind Blowing Decisions," is a quiet-storm classic.
From up-tempo funk grooves like "Party Poops" and "Put the Word Out"
to the romantic Northern soul of "Happiness Togetherness" and "Leaving
for a Dream," Central Heating is among Heatwave's strongest releases.
~ Alex Henderson, All Music Guide
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jaklumen
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response 23 of 26:
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May 22 08:23 UTC 2002 |
I'm not sure if it was mentioned in the funk item from the previous
music conference, but funk also seems to have been absorbed quite a
bit into the newer styles of rock.
On this thread, I think The Red Hot Chili Peppers were probably one of
the first bands to really put the rock-funk mix in the spotlight. The
fact that George Clinton mentored them in their early days is quite
notable-- he told VH1's Behind The Music something to the effect of "I
go where the funk is" when interviewed about his work with the Chili
Peppers.
I worked with some rockers at my last job, and so I was listening to
the rock station quite a bit. Apparently, a lot of rock acts were
drawing on funk as well as hip-hop.
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jaklumen
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response 24 of 26:
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Jun 2 08:40 UTC 2002 |
resp:19 and resp:22 As discussed before, funk smoothed out in the
late 70s to merge somewhat with disco. Soul, on the other hand,
picked up the tempo a bit to mainstream into contemporary "lite rock,"
although I suspect that it was merely mingling with its "white sound"
contemporaries (think AM dial for "white sound," I guess). Heatwave,
Kool and the Gang, Earth, Wind, and Fire, and Lakeside are all
reference points; as is Lionel Richie during and after his work with
the Commodores.
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jaklumen
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response 25 of 26:
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Aug 13 14:08 UTC 2002 |
just on a disco tangent--
Kylie Minogue seems to be the latest to follow the retro-disco trend,
and she seems to be doing quite successfully. After the remake
of "Locomotion," she's recently hit stardom with "Fever" (aptly named,
I'd say). She's drawing comparisons to Madonna, supposedly because
Madonna once sounded like a disco dolly.
The sound is very much in keeping with early 80's disco trends.. it's
tied to very soft funk.
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jaklumen
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response 26 of 26:
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Dec 13 09:34 UTC 2002 |
another comment on the funk-to-rap:
Rapper Coolio brought attention to a late 70's and early 80's funk and
R&B band called Lakeside in 1995 by remaking two of their big hits with
them: "It's All The Way Live" and "Fantastic Voyage."
"It's All The Way Live" was a Top 5 R&B hit in 1979, cut from their
debut album, _Shot of Love_.
"Fantastic Voyage" was their biggest pop hit and another R&B chartopper
in 1980, cut from their third album of the same name, which also went
gold.
Again, I don't think the Coolio remakes took samples: I think Lakeside
actually performed in the songs.
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