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Grex > Agora46 > #131: New York City to open nation's first all-gay public high school in the fall | |
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| 25 new of 241 responses total. |
jep
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response 172 of 241:
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Aug 25 17:14 UTC 2003 |
I agree with Russ. I feel very sorry for the first two bullies I
mentioned. I'm pretty sure I've had a better life than they have had,
and am absolutely certain I had better opportunities coming into my
adult years than they had.
I had a lot of unnecessary misery in my childhood, but so must have
they. I wish none of us had had such bad experiences.
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tod
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response 173 of 241:
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Aug 25 17:29 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jep
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response 174 of 241:
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Aug 25 18:56 UTC 2003 |
Nope. I feel sorry for anyone who's getting beat up by his parents.
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tod
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response 175 of 241:
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Aug 25 19:02 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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slynne
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response 176 of 241:
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Aug 25 21:11 UTC 2003 |
resp:171 - Oh I know that there are terrible parents in the world. And
it sucks for their kids. But, life is unfair and some kids will not get
the same parental support as others. Can teachers and schools be
expected to compensate for this? I dont think it is even possible.
Personally, I think that the *worst* parents in all of this discussion
were novomit's parents. How the hell did he get a gun to take to school
in the first place?
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tod
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response 177 of 241:
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Aug 25 21:47 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jep
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response 178 of 241:
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Aug 26 02:59 UTC 2003 |
Lots of teenagers use guns and are just fine. Post-Columbine, it
might be a little harder to see that lots of guns are used for sports
purposes, even by young people. Teenagers who grow up hunting
probably have the ability to get ahold of a gun if they want to, but
they have access to other dangerous weapons as well. Cars, knives...
any kid who spends an hour or more per day alone in the house has the
ability to make explosives, which means he can make bombs and
grenades.
It's frightening that novomit took a gun to school, that he *managed*
to take it to school, and was even able to carry it around so he had
it when he wanted to threaten someone. It's also frightening that he
felt like he had to do all that to defend himself from being
attacked. There's responsibility there for his parents, certainly,
but also some for the school.
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slynne
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response 179 of 241:
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Aug 26 13:34 UTC 2003 |
How much can a school reasonably be expected to do though? He said that
when he told the administration, they talked to the bullies. That seems
like the only really appropriate action they could take. I assume that
the administration wasnt aware of what was going on before that. Which
isnt all that surprising when you consider that most things happen out
of sight of adults.
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bru
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response 180 of 241:
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Aug 26 14:38 UTC 2003 |
You also have to realize that there are different types of bullying. Girls
get bullied different than boys. Even when boys bully, they use different
methods.
The smallest guy in my high school class used to harrass me every day. He
probably weighed 125 wrining wet, and I weighed nearly twice that. But he
always had the sharp tongue and liked to make fun of me. He was a royal ass.
Now, I may not have been bullied as bad as some of the others here because
of my size, and because I participated in sports, but I was never one of the
in people, and several guys did indeed try to bully me. Mostly because they
knew I would not strike back.
I did use my size to protect younger kids on the bus from other bullies, and
perhaps the bullies thought I was a bully because I was in high school and
they were in grade school.
The one bully in high school did get spanked after he threatened a teacher.
The principal put a chair in front of the study hall and spanked him right
there. He stopped bullying people after that, at least in the open.
But no one ever thought of taking a gun to school, even those of us that had
access to them.
I wonder if the years I spent in school should be considered the transition
years because prior to that no one thought twice about spanking kids in school
and after my school years it became very uncommon.
I am not sure it is better for it.
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albaugh
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response 181 of 241:
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Aug 26 16:30 UTC 2003 |
This seems to fit in: There are the "Pink Pistols", homosexuals who think
it's a good idea for them to have guns. They either did or are setting up
a "chapter" in Michigan. Somebody of the triangle foundation said this is
a bad idea, homosexuals should be at the forefront of gun control.
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slynne
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response 182 of 241:
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Aug 26 16:43 UTC 2003 |
I am not sure why anyone would think sexual orientation should have
anything to do with one's opinions on gun control. I mean, they are
totally seperate issues.
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rcurl
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response 183 of 241:
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Aug 26 17:06 UTC 2003 |
Haven't some gays been shot just because they are gay? That would make
the two issues somewhat less than totally separate.
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mynxcat
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response 184 of 241:
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Aug 26 17:12 UTC 2003 |
Like gays are the only ones that are ever shot? Your logic seems flawed
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rcurl
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response 185 of 241:
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Aug 26 17:46 UTC 2003 |
No, your's is. Others being shot also establishes a connection between
them and the issue of gun control.
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tod
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response 186 of 241:
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Aug 26 18:08 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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happyboy
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response 187 of 241:
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Aug 26 18:08 UTC 2003 |
re180: so you advocate a return to the humiliation
of corporal punishment in our public schools?
like maybe when a kid misbehaves the admin. could take him/her
to the local laundry-mat and *shake* them.
perhaps they could hire YOU to do that, heck...maybe they'd
hire a second lookout to keep an eye peeled for pesky
social workers, eh?
moron.
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tod
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response 188 of 241:
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Aug 26 18:43 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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bru
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response 189 of 241:
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Aug 26 18:46 UTC 2003 |
There is a difference between punishment adn assault in my mind. Spanking
a child on his rump will make an impression and get him motivated to change
his behavior.
Stomping on toes, or slapping them, shaking them, or making them eat wierd
concotions fall under abuse. But you posterior is designed to take a few well
placed whacks without injury to anything other than your ego.
No whips, no chains, and no kicks to the groin. This isn't torture, nor is
it rocket science.
It is punishment designed to change an attitude. same goes with standing in
a corner or making you wear a dunce cap. It causes the individual
humiliation, adn gives them incentive to change their behavior.
Time outs, trips to the councillor, and reason have only minimal effect on
a mind that hasn't learned to reason yet.
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flem
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response 190 of 241:
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Aug 26 19:15 UTC 2003 |
Personally, I see that as the heart of the problem: the assumption that
school-aged children are not capable of reasoning. Quite the opposite is
true: these kids learn very quickly that ineffectual "punishments" like time
outs or verbal reprimands are completely meaningless and can be safely
ignored.
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scott
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response 191 of 241:
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Aug 26 19:39 UTC 2003 |
Fortunately most kids don't have much independent income, or a driver's
license. While just bitching at them might not work, being grounded, not
getting to go to the amusement park, etc. can be a big deal.
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anderyn
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response 192 of 241:
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Aug 26 20:08 UTC 2003 |
Well, imho, it's like this -- we just got a kitten. That kitten wants to do
what it wants to do, including some dangerous things. Now, I could give it
a time out, but what's that mean to a kitten? No, I have to use physically
taking it away from wires, or spritzing it with water, or spraying the wires
with bitter apple spray, or any of a number of other things that will dissuade
that kitten from biting on electric wires. It doesn't understand why I don't
want it to stop biting the wires, so I can't just tell it "stop, and this is
why". This is where I think a young child is -- it's not going to understand
why I want it to not walk out in the street, or whatever. That's the time when
physical punishments do work -- on some children, in some cases, imho. Once
you CAN talk to a child and actually expect it to understand your point of
view and that there are REASONS why you have those rules, then physical
punishment is less effective. (Though in some cases, it does work -- witness
the bully in my middle school who was paddled by the principal. It made most
of his previous victims much less afraid of him and a lot more likely to
report him, because they saw him in a ridiculous posture AND they knew the
principal would do it again, if he had to.)
BTW, up there, it's I do NOT want the kitten to bite electrical wires! I DO
want it to stop.
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slynne
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response 193 of 241:
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Aug 26 20:40 UTC 2003 |
I dont know. I think that my parent's calm manner of talking about
issues including their evil "make up your own punishment" thing was
pretty effective and probably was *more* effective than beatings. I
used to wish they would beat me because it would be over fast and would
be better than the whole sitting in the living room trying to explain
why I had done what I had done thing. Of course my parent's method
taught me to reason and to think about my actions.
There is an important difference between kittens and children. Children
*understand* language which is why punishment doesnt have to be
physical. You can say to a child, "you must not go into the street and
if you do, you will have a time out or you will have a toy taken away
or whatever the punishment is. Physical punishment might work but I
dont think it works as well as other forms of behavior modification and
*certainly* isnt worth the other lessons it teaches (like whomever is
biggest and can hit hardest has the most power).
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slynne
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response 194 of 241:
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Aug 26 20:41 UTC 2003 |
Although, I have to admit that if I had kids, I might think it was
funny to squirt them with a squirt gun whenever they did refused to use
their litter box or jumped up on the sofa ;)
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anderyn
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response 195 of 241:
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Aug 26 21:07 UTC 2003 |
I'm talking about two and three year olds. They don't understand. Believe me,
I've dealt with them enough that I can safely say they don't GET I have to
do x because it's safer. I did this whole conversation on Saturday with Katie,
about how Griffin and I couldn't play on the high bars of the playset even
if she wanted us to, because I'm too big and Griffin can't balance. She was
very unhappy about it, although I explained it to her. While this was
non-problematic, she still didn't understand why it wasn't safe, really.
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slynne
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response 196 of 241:
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Aug 26 21:26 UTC 2003 |
Yeah, but when you smacked her she understood?
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