response 172 of 241:

Aug 25 17:14 UTC 2003

I agree with Russ.  I feel very sorry for the first two bullies I 
mentioned.  I'm pretty sure I've had a better life than they have had, 
and am absolutely certain I had better opportunities coming into my 
adult years than they had.

I had a lot of unnecessary misery in my childhood, but so must have 
they.  I wish none of us had had such bad experiences.

response 174 of 241:

Aug 25 18:56 UTC 2003

Nope.  I feel sorry for anyone who's getting beat up by his parents.

response 176 of 241:

Aug 25 21:11 UTC 2003

resp:171 - Oh I know that there are terrible parents in the world. And 
it sucks for their kids. But, life is unfair and some kids will not get 
the same parental support as others. Can teachers and schools be 
expected to compensate for this? I dont think it is even possible. 
Personally, I think that the *worst* parents in all of this discussion 
were novomit's parents. How the hell did he get a gun to take to school 
in the first place? 

response 178 of 241:

Aug 26 02:59 UTC 2003

Lots of teenagers use guns and are just fine.  Post-Columbine, it 
might be a little harder to see that lots of guns are used for sports 
purposes, even by young people.  Teenagers who grow up hunting 
probably have the ability to get ahold of a gun if they want to, but 
they have access to other dangerous weapons as well.  Cars, knives... 
any kid who spends an hour or more per day alone in the house has the 
ability to make explosives, which means he can make bombs and 
grenades.  

It's frightening that novomit took a gun to school, that he *managed* 
to take it to school, and was even able to carry it around so he had 
it when he wanted to threaten someone.  It's also frightening that he 
felt like he had to do all that to defend himself from being 
attacked.  There's responsibility there for his parents, certainly, 
but also some for the school.

response 180 of 241:

Aug 26 14:38 UTC 2003

You also have to realize that there are different types of bullying.  Girls
get bullied different than boys.  Even when boys bully, they use different
methods.

The smallest guy in my high school class used to harrass me every day.  He
probably weighed 125 wrining wet, and I weighed nearly twice that.  But he
always had the sharp tongue and liked to make fun of me.  He was a royal ass.

Now, I may not have been bullied as bad as some of the others here because
of my size, and because I participated in sports, but I was never one of the
in people, and several guys did indeed try to bully me.  Mostly because they
knew I would not strike back.

I did use my size to protect younger kids on the bus from other bullies, and
perhaps the bullies thought I was a bully because I was in high school and
they were in grade school.

The one bully in high school did get spanked after he threatened a teacher.
The principal put a chair in front of the study hall and spanked him right
there.  He stopped bullying people after that, at least in the open.

But no one ever thought of taking a gun to school, even those of us that had
access to them.

I wonder if the years I spent in school should be considered the transition
years because prior to that no one thought twice about spanking kids in school
and after my school years it became very uncommon.

I am not sure it is better for it.

response 182 of 241:

Aug 26 16:43 UTC 2003

I am not sure why anyone would think sexual orientation should have 
anything to do with one's opinions on gun control. I mean, they are 
totally seperate issues. 

response 184 of 241:

Aug 26 17:12 UTC 2003

Like gays are the only ones that are ever shot? Your logic seems flawed

response 190 of 241:

Aug 26 19:15 UTC 2003

Personally, I see that as the heart of the problem:  the assumption that
school-aged children are not capable of reasoning.  Quite the opposite is
true:  these kids learn very quickly that ineffectual "punishments" like time
outs or verbal reprimands are completely meaningless and can be safely
ignored.  

response 192 of 241:

Aug 26 20:08 UTC 2003

Well, imho, it's like this -- we just got a kitten. That kitten wants to do
what it wants to do, including some dangerous things. Now, I could give it
a time out, but what's that mean to a kitten? No, I have to use physically
taking it away from wires, or spritzing it with water, or spraying the wires
with bitter apple spray, or any of a number of other things that will dissuade
that kitten from biting on electric wires. It doesn't understand why I don't
want it to stop biting the wires, so I can't just tell it "stop, and this is
why". This is where I think a young child is -- it's not going to understand
why I want it to not walk out in the street, or whatever. That's the time when
physical punishments do work --  on some children, in some cases, imho. Once
you CAN talk to a child and actually expect it to understand your point of
view and that there are REASONS why you have those rules, then physical
punishment is less effective. (Though in some cases, it does work -- witness
the bully in my middle school who was paddled by the principal. It made most
of his previous victims much less afraid of him and a lot more likely to
report him, because they saw him in a ridiculous posture AND they knew the
principal would do it again, if he had to.) 
BTW, up there, it's I do NOT want the kitten to bite electrical wires! I DO
want it to stop.

response 194 of 241:

Aug 26 20:41 UTC 2003

Although, I have to admit that if I had kids, I might think it was 
funny to squirt them with a squirt gun whenever they did refused to use 
their litter box or jumped up on the sofa ;)