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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 199 responses total. |
jep
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response 16 of 199:
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Sep 25 16:32 UTC 2001 |
Leeron, I understand that no U-M quarterback had ever played a down as an
NFL player before Harbaugh. I'll believe you if you say that's not true,
but can you provide some more information about it? Who, when, what team
did he play for?
I've been listening to WTKA-1050 AM a lot in the last couple of years, and
they've discussed this. I believe they've stated there weren't any, ever.
Thanks!
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senna
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response 17 of 199:
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Sep 25 17:01 UTC 2001 |
There are a couple of quarterbacks who've played in the pros, some from the
early half of the century. I don't have the resources available at work
(where I am) to verify this, but I can assure you it's true.
Grbac and Harbaugh held decent national regard, nothing spectacular. One of
the reasons Leach didn't go into professional football is that he wasn't (and
really still wouldn't be) a legitimate pro quarterback. He was an option man
first, second, and third. Ward had pro potential coming out of college, but
opted for Basketball as the better career. Money and physical well-being talk
loudly in such cases.
Talent development in sports is one of the great mysteries that make them so
much fun--there's no sure way to tell which prospects will grow into starters,
all-stars, and hall of famers, and which will play in a few games and never
be heard from again. Luck is certain a large part--The Denver Broncos mine
the lower rounds of the draft for players nobody remembers from college such
as Olandis Gary, Terrell Davis, and Mike Anderson, puts them behind a great
quarterback and the league's best offensive line, and turns them loose. All
three, when healthy, are now solid runners with confidence and skill. If they
had started elsewhere, though, I doubt they'd have accomplished much of
anything.
Lions fans have spent a lot of time wishing that the Lions had drafted Brian
Griese instead of Charlie Batch, but they're not thinking too hard about it.
Brian Griese was drafted by one of the best coaches in the league and spent
his first year learning from John Elway. He learned the ropes throwing to
two all-star receivers and handing off to three thousand yard runners (one
of them ran for 2,000, too) and parking himself behind the aformentioned
offensive line. Batch was drafted by the power-football coach Bobby Ross,
played behind a line of scrubs, and except for his first year has had
journeymen next to him in the backfield. I'd bet that if the situations were
reversed, Batch would be the one succeeding in Denver, with Griese struggling
to hang on.
Look at Kurt Warner. He didn't make his NFL debut for an awful team relying
on him to carry them (though we might have thought so at first). He has so
many weapons available to him--it's a setup for success. This doesn't say
that he hasn't become a great quarterback--he has composure, intelligence,
and accuracy that prove otherwise--but he was given a chance to succeed to
the fullest of his ability.
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albaugh
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response 18 of 199:
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Sep 26 06:28 UTC 2001 |
I still say that the last good Lions team was the wild-card entrant at 10-4
in 1970 (?) that lost 5-0 at Dallas. Bill Munson was the old veteran, and
Greg Landry was the up-and-comer who took his job. Until/unless the Lions
do what the Wings did, they're still gonna be the "same old Lions".
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senna
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response 19 of 199:
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Sep 26 11:31 UTC 2001 |
How do you define good? The Lions actually went 12-4 and won a playoff game
in '91.
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jep
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response 20 of 199:
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Sep 26 16:54 UTC 2001 |
I'm going to string along with the radio guys, that no U-M grad ever
played at QB in the NFL until Jim Harbaugh, until someone can cite a name,
year and team.
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senna
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response 21 of 199:
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Sep 26 17:15 UTC 2001 |
Suit yourself. I don't remember a Spartan QB playing in the NFL before Tony
Banks. :)
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senna
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response 22 of 199:
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Sep 26 17:38 UTC 2001 |
This guy didnt' play for Michigan State. Benny Friedman, QB, New York Giants,
1929-1931. You guessed it, he played for...
Jeff George is currenlty *not* playing for the Washington Redskins. He was
cut today, ending yet another promising sojourn with a team that was supposed
to win with him. Dan Snyder is the one guilty of presuming success this time.
The Redskins have scored three points in two dismal losses to San Diego and
Green Bay, and he is a large (but not the only) reason. They are now left
with... Tony Banks, who was cut by the Dallas Cowboys before the season in
favor of rookie Quincy Carter. I hope that George does not come here. We
do not need him screwing the Lions up, too.
The answer is Michigan, if you missed it.
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lk
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response 23 of 199:
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Sep 26 17:50 UTC 2001 |
I was going to mention Friedman (teamed up with Oosterban at UM), but I
also thought that Timberlake (who I mentioned earlier) played in the pros
in the 1960s.
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senna
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response 24 of 199:
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Sep 26 21:52 UTC 2001 |
He might have. Do you know who for?
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jep
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response 25 of 199:
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Sep 26 22:51 UTC 2001 |
What were the career stats for either of those guys? I'd look them up for
myself, but our WWW access at work has been temporarily suspended because
of the virus last week.
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lk
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response 26 of 199:
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Sep 27 04:41 UTC 2001 |
I'm not sure that Friedman's stats would be relevant in today's world.
Most of the QBs in his era threw the ball *backwards*....
Just found a list of Michigan players drafted by the NFL (which doesn't
mean they ever played, let alone threw a TD Pass -- which I believe was
Dierdorf's comment).
Jim Van Pelt, 1958, 5th Round, Washington Redskins
Bob Ptacek, 1959, 8th Round, Cleveland Browns
Bob Timberlake, 1965, 3rd Round, NY Giants
Bob Timberlake, 1965, 13th Round, Buffalo Bills (AFL Draft)
Larry Cipa, 1974, 15th Round, New Orleans Saints
Dennis Franklin, 1975, 6th Round, Detroit Lions
Rick Leach, 1979, 5th Round, Denver Broncos
Steve Smith, 1984 Supplemental, 2nd Round, Sand DIego Chargers
Jim Harbaugh, 1987, 1st Round, Chicago Bears
Elvis Grback, 1993, 8th Round, San Fran 49ers
Todd Collins, 1995, 2nd Round, Buffalo Bills
Friedman doesn't appear on this list because he predates the NFL draft.
Brady and Griese post-date the list, but another Michigan QB was drafted
in 1996. Name him and receive my eternal admiration...
Friedman's played with the Cleveland Bulldogs (1927), the Detroit
Wolverines (1928-29), the NY Giants (1929-31) and the Brooklyn Dodgers
(1932-34).
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jep
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response 27 of 199:
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Sep 27 14:09 UTC 2001 |
re #26: Who was Scott Dreisbach, Alex?
re #22:
About Benny Friedman:
According to this WWW site:
www.umich.edu/~bhl/athdept/football/fballam/aafriedm.htm
he "starred for such pro teams as Cleveland, Detroit, New York and
Brooklyn".
This page:
www.hickoksports.com/biograph/friedmanben.shtml
is much more specific, it says he never made the Hall of Fame, but:
"In 1928, Friedman led the NFL in both rushing touchdowns and touchdown
passes; no other player has ever accomplished that. In 1929, he threw
20 touchdown passes, including 4 in one game, both NFL records for
years."
All right, I'm convinced. Thanks for clearing up that knowledge void!
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lk
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response 28 of 199:
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Sep 27 16:44 UTC 2001 |
Sorry, but Dreisback was (not drafted) in 1999, not 1996.
A good guess and you win a consolation prize....
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senna
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response 29 of 199:
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Sep 27 16:49 UTC 2001 |
Dreisbach was a freshman in '95, and played briefly as a backup to Tom Brady
in '98. Of course, he played many other games, too.
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mooncat
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response 30 of 199:
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Sep 27 18:20 UTC 2001 |
See, I was thinking Driesbach, but thought 1996 was too early... it's
good to be right. <grins>
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albaugh
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response 31 of 199:
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Sep 28 07:43 UTC 2001 |
Re: Lions' 12-4 season: Yes, that was an accomplishment, and beating Dallas
at home in the playoffs was great fun. But the blowout loss at Washington
left a bad taste in the mouth. Beside Barry Sanders, can you name any other
Lions "stars" on that team?
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jep
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response 32 of 199:
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Sep 28 13:33 UTC 2001 |
Heh. Herman Moore, Scott Mitchell (he threw for a lotta yards that year;
wasn't it something like 4700?), Jason Hansen was on the team by then I
think; I think it was his first year and he put a kickoff through the
uprights. But it was a team with Barry Sanders and Some Other Guys for
sure.
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ric
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response 33 of 199:
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Sep 28 16:13 UTC 2001 |
Maybe Detroit will lose every game and draft a good quarterback... any good
QB's coming out in the draft next year?
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jep
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response 34 of 199:
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Sep 29 15:43 UTC 2001 |
Sure; Joey Harrington and Kurt Kittner are both top-ranked prospects.
Henson would have been, of course. Whoever wound up starting for Texas
-- Applewhite and the other one; I don't remember his name but he either
did or almost did beat out Applewhite.
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gelinas
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response 35 of 199:
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Sep 29 21:23 UTC 2001 |
Caught the end of the MSU-Northwestern game. Wonderful seesaw finish. :)
Michigan seems to be doing well against Michigan. Even if they didn't score
first. (I missed the first score because ABC didn't cut away from the game
mentioned above.)
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goose
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response 36 of 199:
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Sep 29 23:00 UTC 2001 |
YEah, a games worth of playing in the last 30 seconds.....I missed the last
18, what was the final outcome?
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danr
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response 37 of 199:
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Sep 29 23:47 UTC 2001 |
The final score was Michigan 45, Illinois 20.
It's interesting to read this story at this moment. On C-SPAN2 they're
showing an interview with Murray Sperber, Bobby Knight's biggest critic
and author of the book, _Beer and Circus_: How College Sports are
Ruining Undergraduate Education_.
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gelinas
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response 38 of 199:
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Sep 30 00:36 UTC 2001 |
I think #36 was asking about the MSU-NU game: 26-27, NU. I forgot the score
almost as soon as they cut over to the UM game; 'twas fun to watch, but I
didn't have an investment in the outcome.
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lynne
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response 39 of 199:
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Sep 30 00:45 UTC 2001 |
#36 was in reference to the NU-MSU game, I believe. NU threw a 54-yard Hail
Mary, had time for one rushing play, and kicked the game-winning field goal
with 5 seconds left. Final score 27-26 Northwestern. :)
The Michigan dfense looked fantastic against Illinois. The announcers spent
a bit of tim at the beginning of the game bragging about how IL had such a
great turnover margin/sack protection. They looked pretty silly by the end.
Michigan had some beautiful offensive flourishes: the initial touchdown
was a Navarre lateral pass to Walker, who promptly threw another lateral
pass to Gonzales running up the other side of the field and all the way to
the end zone. There was also a very pretty reverse by Bell (28 yd TD run).
Mostly I was impressed by the way that, whenever the IL running back started
to break through, there was always someone in maize and blue to slam him
down and say "no you don't!"
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jep
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response 40 of 199:
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Sep 30 02:57 UTC 2001 |
I did have an investment in the MSU-Northwestern game. I'm a Michigan
State fan. That 4th quarter was too much to take, and I was unable to
watch the Michigan game that followed.
The scoring in the 4th quarter:
After a largely defensive game, it was 17-14 Northwestern. Then in the
last 4:42:
MSU returned a punt for a touchdown and missed the 2 point conversion.
MSU leads 20-17
Northwestern drove 95 yards for a touchdown and committed a 15 yard
penalty while kicking the extra point. Northwestern leads 24-20.
Michigan State ran the kick return for a touchdown, but missed the extra
point. Michigan State leads 26-24.
Northwestern threw about a 50 yard pass, ran a 5 yard play, and kicked a
47 yard field goal.
Northwestern wins.
It was very exciting, but it's difficult to be on the losing end of such
a game.
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