|
Grex > Cars > #127: How do you buy a used car? |  |
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 40 responses total. |
michaela
|
|
response 16 of 40:
| 
Apr 1 04:22 UTC 2003 |
Re #12 - I'm not THAT short. I'm 5'6", but I still fall into that "dangerous"
category. :-P
|
carson
|
|
response 17 of 40:
|
Apr 1 06:01 UTC 2003 |
<carson considers fashioning some off-color comment about chests and
distances, but thinks better of it>
(it's been many years since I bought my one and only used car, but what
I've learned is that every make and model of car has certain quirks and
qualities of which one should be aware before purchasing. for example,
I'll probably never buy a Ford or a post-1990 Mazda because the engines
tend to blow head gaskets and I have a notorious habit of doing the same.
there's no sense in doubling that quality and hoping the two cancel each
other out. by the same token, if I ever purchase a Honda Civic, I will
make sure to get the timing belt changed at the appropriate intervals
instead of "pushing it.")
(I will probably buy a used car within the next year or so, so I'm glad
to see an item like this.)
|
jaklumen
|
|
response 18 of 40:
|
Apr 1 07:12 UTC 2003 |
resp:15 What the hell are you talking about? He bought the car as a
mechanic's special-- he didn't own it before. There was an article in
Car & Driver some time ago about that particular car being a well-
engineered engine for fuel economy and an example that you didn't need
new and small.
|
jmsaul
|
|
response 19 of 40:
|
Apr 1 07:17 UTC 2003 |
Re #14: Pull the other one...
|
mdw
|
|
response 20 of 40:
|
Apr 1 07:56 UTC 2003 |
Early GM diesels definitely had a "reputation". I don't know how much
the later ones improved, but when gas became relatively cheaper again
and pollution control more important, they disappeared quite fast.
Timing belts are important to replace on many newer cars (and not just
Hondas). In many newer engines, the piston & valves have "negative"
clearance -- the design relies on the piston never reaching the top of
its stroke while the valve is open. If the timing belt breaks, one or
more valves is likely to remain open, impacting some piston, with
expensive results. My volvo has the last year of B230F engines that
didn't have this feature. Presumably I should also get slightly worse
gas mileage but I could push the timing belt change interval, if I
didn't mind risking being stranded.
|
omni
|
|
response 21 of 40:
|
Apr 1 16:17 UTC 2003 |
Buy it from someone you really trust.
I bought the Toyota from my friend, and part time employer Lindsay.
The first nite I had it the starter quit in Monroe. He came up to
Monroe, started the car, then took it to the shop and had the starter
replaced, which he paid for. Not a bit of trouble, other than the
usual crap that Toyotas go through when they're a little long in the
tooth.
I would buy another car from him. He says that this car will last
a very long time with proper maintenence.
My last excursion to Cleveland was fun. I only used 4 gallons of
gas to get there. I love little cars.
|
tsty
|
|
response 22 of 40:
|
Apr 1 16:52 UTC 2003 |
jep - i'll relate the methodology i was taught and which i witnessed
working soooooo well over the years.
go to a NEW car dealer!
find a salesman you get along with.
tell him/her you want to buy a USED car.
deflect the 'go over there' kneejerk answer.
tell him/her you wnat to buy a USED car from him/her - a trade in
from aother of the customers who is buying a NEW car.
the salesman who does lots of business has customers who buy
new cars every year or so and trade in their old one. the salesman
knows who takes care of their cars based on the series of
tradeins and their resales.
my dad would give the *new* car salesman some particulars that
were importnat. then he wold say no quibble on price, just assurance
that hte car-to-be-bought would be in excellent conditoin nad have
come from one of that salesman's regular new car buyers.
then he'd tell the salesman to call when the 'right' car showed up,
no rush, no problem.
EVERYbody benefited with this method! the new car buyer (good tradin)
teh salesman (two cars sold for the grief of one) our family (we got
a car thst had a quality background analyzed by someone IN THE BUSINESS
every day).
... adn teh cost was a used car price, not a new car price eventhough
dad got damn-near-new cars every time.
the 'particulars that were importnat' of course, could be any criteria
YOU find importnat, obviously.
over the 25+ years i watched this process there was only one car that
needed any help before boought - and that one had a barely-recognized
problem (at that time). rear axle whine, a problem i helped solve
for cadillac (part of a large team but i was inthte thick of it) as
thecars' interiors got quieter and quieter.
peripherally, that dealership got cutting edge educatoin identifying
and solving that problem and their service shop business eally took
off - even the non-cadillac level cars got fixed.
the only reason i know aofthe peripheral sutff was that three years
afterward, when dad went to get another 'new' one, the salesman brought
out hte service manager who related the unexpected benefits of my work
from the last time.
(wanna talk about a puffed-head little kid-engineer basking in that
sort of spotlight? oh, boy, let me tell ya ...............! <g>)
there aren't to many times i can remember being *that* inflated but
that isone of them.
anyway, the buying-a-used-car secret s out now - enjoy.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 23 of 40:
|
Apr 1 17:05 UTC 2003 |
I understand the "secret", but I found that the saleman at the dealership
I dealt with was the same person for new and used cars. That is, they
sold both, and all the salespersons had full information about both.
In this situation the "secret" is irrelevant.
|
tsty
|
|
response 24 of 40:
|
Apr 1 20:39 UTC 2003 |
hmmm, guess i didn';t solve *all* the axle-whinners, errr whine problems <g>.
|
goose
|
|
response 25 of 40:
|
Apr 1 23:04 UTC 2003 |
I've used a version of the method toasty describes with good luck.
|
jaklumen
|
|
response 26 of 40:
|
Apr 2 04:22 UTC 2003 |
resp:20 yes, that friend said GM messed up their diesels for a while
and told me this particular engine was when they got it right again.
|
gull
|
|
response 27 of 40:
|
Apr 2 14:09 UTC 2003 |
Ah, all right. I was thinking of their early ones, about which no one
seems to have anything good to say.
I found my biggest problem at car dealerships was convincing them I
didn't want to buy an SUV, and no, I didn't want to test-drive one just
to be sure.
|
gizlnort
|
|
response 28 of 40:
|
Apr 3 17:38 UTC 2003 |
Serious advice on buying a used car, don't be my Dad.
That said, my father taught me everything about buying used cars that he
knows, including what not to shop for. He has had 20+ used cars in the last
26 years, not including the new ones and every disaster story. So here are
some rough figures and concepts:
Whey buying used, figure that for every $200 you put into the initial price
you are getting a months service with relatively few problems.
Most cars from 1970 - 1980 have about 75-100k miles in them before major
failures. 1980 - 1985 about 100k miles, 1985-1995 about 125k miles in them,
1995 - 2002 about 150k miles in them.
If it has had an engine or transmission rebuilt/replaced...its on the way out,
deduct 25% of the expected life span for each system.
When taking it for a test drive (always test drive it, no matter who your
buying it from) drive it for at least 20 minutes, let it idle for at least
2 mins, hard brake it once (Panic stop from minimum of 40 mph to zero, see
how long it takes for the car to stop.) Get a mechanic to look it over.
Finally, expect it to fail, dramatically, and price is no indicator of
quality. My dad bough one car for 3k and it blew out in a month,
starter/motor/trans failure in a week. We also bought a student car for
500.00, piece of crap, but it ran like a champ for two years.
|
gull
|
|
response 29 of 40:
|
Apr 3 17:51 UTC 2003 |
Wow. Your dad's luck has been a lot worse than my dad's luck. I think
part of it is my dad found a car dealer early on that was honest. He
never bought a bad car from this guy. In fact, there were a couple of
occasions where he told him, "you don't want to buy this car." You're
more likely to find this kind of honesty in a small town, since word
gets around fast and you don't have a constant supply of victims like in
a larger city. A dishonest dealer in a small town is not likely to stay
in business long.
|
keesan
|
|
response 30 of 40:
|
Apr 3 18:30 UTC 2003 |
We were given a 1987 car by a friend with 150,000 miles and nothing major went
wrong with it until a couple of years ago when the exhaust system rusted out.
We have had it maybe 8 years now. Cheap car (Dodge Plymouth Colt). He took
good care of it. The neighbor gave us a 1986 that is fine except for the rust
(hole in floor etc.). Probably the same miles.
|
i
|
|
response 31 of 40:
|
Apr 4 02:31 UTC 2003 |
My dad bought a number of used cars from service stations & repair
shops that sold 'em on the side (for customers unloading old cars).
The places were locally owned & knew dad as a long-term customer,
so they gave him good cars too keep him that way.
|
tsty
|
|
response 32 of 40:
|
Apr 6 02:13 UTC 2003 |
re giznoirt above :
When taking it for a test drive (always test drive it, no matter who your
buying it from) drive it for at least 20 minutes, let it idle for at least
2 mins, hard brake it once (Panic stop from minimum of 40 mph to zero, see
how long it takes for the car to stop.) Get a mechanic to look it over.
i didn;'t add this but i should have ... if if has gages (or not, i guess)
at idle turn on ALL the electrical stuff! inclluding cigartette lighter
and see what happens. it should increase the idle (a/c shold do that
all by itself) and (as i found out with fuel injectin) not stall.
nursing a bad-battery/charging system car home one night recently
i found out that teh non-carbureted cars stall on low-volts. sure
was a surprise to figger that one out on the fly.
|
mdw
|
|
response 33 of 40:
|
Apr 6 10:55 UTC 2003 |
Older cars with open loop control systems & carburetors had to do weird
things with A/C & automatic transmission for the idle speed. So, yes,
on those cars, engaging either would make a difference (of course,
engaging an automatic is going to affect engine speed anyways). I have
never heard of a car where engaging electrical accessories will increase
idle. Most newer cars have closed loop control systems and "constant
idle"; there's no reason why idle would increase for any accessory on
such a car. On my car (1988 volvo, efi) when the a/c cycles on or off,
the engine idle speed glitches slightly.
On *very* old cars, at idle, the battery would not charge. On those
cars, the headlights would get noticeably brighter when engine RPMs were
increased. This is still true on many modern motorcycles.
Nearly all modern spark ignition engines depend on a functional
battery/electrical system. The only exception I can think of is some
lawnmowers which use a magneto instead. EFI certainly depends
electricity; E = "electronic". If the battery fails "in operation", the
car may continue to operate until the electrical load exceeds the
charging sytem's supply -- ie, high load, low supply - headlights & all
accessories on and engine idling "in gear" stopped with an automatic. I
was once in a car where the battery post had rotted through (battery
acid) and snapped. Car worked fine until a stop light, then it was a
total systems failure.
Older diesel engines did not need electricity - so on such vehicles
(probably mostly trucks) a battery failure won't kill the engine.
Starting it might be a problem (although there are diesels that can be
started using compressed air or other means). I believe modern diesels
are switching to the use of electronic closed loop systems (pollution,
economy, efficiency), so a functional electrical system will be required
there.
The april issue of CR has a much more complete list of things to look
for in a used car. I don't think they mention anything about idle speed
(which on most cars is hard to judge anyways) but they do mention hard
braking, also having a friend watch to see if the wheels line up with
the car's motion (if not, could be frame or wheel alignment issues),
also looking for signs of car repair work, and other stuff. A good
mechanic should be able to tell you if there's anything "off" about the
car's idling or other characteristics, and can look for a lot of other
things (wear in suspension components, brake pad life, battery
condition) that you could not necessarily tell just by driving.
You should still budget money for things the mechanic might not catch.
The older the car, the more likely it is that really strange stuff could
fail. Not all of these are practical to find, so any older car *is* a
gamble. This is why they're worth less money.
|
gull
|
|
response 34 of 40:
|
Apr 7 17:42 UTC 2003 |
Re #33: My Honda will increase the idle if the electrical load is high
enough. Actually, it's kind of interesting. Honda lets the engine
computer control the alternator field voltage. It's not uncommon, on a
summer day with the blower fan and most other accessories off, for me to
look down when the car's idling and see only 12V on my voltmeter. If I
switch on some high-current accessories, or idle long enough for the
battery voltage to get down farther, the ECU will switch the alternator
back on, the voltage will jump up to 13.75 or so, and the idle will kick
up a hundred RPM or so. I suspect this is a way to improve fuel economy
and idle emissions. I've also noticed that in this mode, the ECU will
sometimes switch the alternator off when I accellerate and back on when
I coast in gear.
I've noted three distinct charging "modes" on this car. One is no
charging -- the alternator field is essentially switched off, and the
car is running on the battery, with an electrical system voltage around
12V. Another is a sort of float charge, where the battery is being kept
charged but the voltage is around 13.5-13.75V. (I don't have a digital
voltmeter, just an expanded-scale analog one, so this is approximate.)
Then there's the "the battery is really low and we need to charge it
fast" mode, like when I start the car and turn the heater blower on high
on a very cold winter day. Under those circumstances I've seen charging
voltages as high as 14V.
|
goose
|
|
response 35 of 40:
|
Apr 8 17:18 UTC 2003 |
the "12V" automotive "standard" is actually 13.8VDC, so a gauge indicating
14VDC isn't a reason for concern.
|
gull
|
|
response 36 of 40:
|
Apr 8 20:29 UTC 2003 |
I realize that. I just find the variation interesting. Other cars I've
had used fixed setpoints on their voltage regulators.
|
goose
|
|
response 37 of 40:
|
Apr 9 02:52 UTC 2003 |
True, the variation is interesting. #35 was directed more at people who
didn't realize 12V isn't always 12V, not so much at you.
|
tsty
|
|
response 38 of 40:
|
Apr 10 08:01 UTC 2003 |
<< 14.7 vdc, but that may have been altered since in inestigated.>>
|
goose
|
|
response 39 of 40:
|
Apr 11 17:35 UTC 2003 |
In English please?
|
polytarp
|
|
response 40 of 40:
|
Apr 11 18:18 UTC 2003 |
Warum sagen Sie, English?
|