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Grex > Coop8 > #19: What Should The Co-op Login Screen Say? |  |
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| 25 new of 280 responses total. |
popcorn
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response 150 of 280:
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Mar 8 04:31 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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kerouac
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response 151 of 280:
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Mar 8 05:45 UTC 1996 |
Popcorn, this last coop went substantially longer then previous
editions. I know that the suggestion had been made on here and to tsty
and nephi to restart, starting back when the old edition had been
up for six months and again when it hit 100, 110 messages. but they
werent listening. And not once have they apologized or even ttempted
er...attempted to explain why they wanted the board to get involved with
conferencing decisions. The job of fair witnessing is supposed to
involve being accesable and responsive to the users of the conference,
and this item is testament by itself to the fact that they are not. They
have clearly demonstrated that they have their own agenda for this conf
or what it should be. They have not made much of an attempt to defend
themselves or their actions, which is why this item is dragging on. nd
since they arent even speaking up much, I think its pretty solid evidence
that they read this conf selectively, which is not supposed to be a
luxury reserved for fw's. They are supposed to read everything.
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rcurl
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response 152 of 280:
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Mar 8 08:04 UTC 1996 |
Personally, I think coop should not be restarted. It is one of the
most archival cfs on Grex, containing a history of the thought that
has gone into the development of the organization. Restarts end quite
a few very good threads that need to be picked up some time in the
future. This "shooting ourselves in the head" every some months is
quite self defeating (IMO).
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carson
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response 153 of 280:
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Mar 8 10:49 UTC 1996 |
I think kerouac was trying to make a point there... damned if I know what
it was. Apparently he can tell you how long the first coop conference was
around before it was restarted, I guess.
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kerouac
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response 154 of 280:
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Mar 8 18:06 UTC 1996 |
#152....rcurl, grex is too slow to make it efficient to have large
conferences, plus there is a continuing problem with making these
confs user friendly so more people come to them and feel like they can
jump right in and contribute. Confs that have so many items they look
like dinosaurs are many times too intimidating to new users. So
while these old confs are worth saving, and should be archived, the
vitality of picospan depends on keeping whats current reasonably sleek
and streamlined.
Coop in particular ceases to serve its function if it is not as user
friendly as possible. The idea is, correct me if Im mistaken, to get
regular users here to discuss system issues with the staff and board.
It doesnt do any good if users come here once or twice, get scared off
or intimidated by three hundred response items, preachy login screens,
and an "insider" atmosphere that makes it difficult to feel welcome to
participate. The percentage of users who even read coop is probably
much lower than it should be. In order for this conf to become what
it needs to be, and should be, it needs an atmosphere that is deliberately
conducive to encourage outside participation. That means having fw's
who are active and responsive, not passive, and it means keeping things
tight and organized so anybody can follow what is going on and join in.
I realize there may be people here who dont care if anyone else participates
beyond the current core group of participants, but thats obviously not
the majority consensus. So lets stop with the sarcasm and the dissent
and just come up with a coop that more people want to read!
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steve
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response 155 of 280:
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Mar 8 19:02 UTC 1996 |
I hope people don't get see an "insider" atmosphere here, but looking
at the number of .ccop8.cf participation files, I don't think thats
likely. There are a grand total of 70 participants here, making one out
of every 166 accounts here being in this conference. Thats a 0.6%
participation rate for this conference.
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robh
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response 156 of 280:
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Mar 8 20:05 UTC 1996 |
SEVENTY users read Co-op? TOTAL?
<robh faints>
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abchan
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response 157 of 280:
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Mar 8 21:07 UTC 1996 |
Is that a lot or a little or are you fainting for another reason?
<abchan looks confused>
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kerouac
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response 158 of 280:
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Mar 9 01:07 UTC 1996 |
It would be interesting to see such figures for all confs to see
what is the norm, and which confs are more popular than others. On the
surface 70 may not be bad, but consider that a solid percentage of those
probably read the conf once or twice, and 20-25 of those must be staff
and board members. I still think the number of regular users could be
higher considering the broad range of things discussed here. Even
the least used confs have forty or fifty people in their .cf files who
have at least been there once or twice
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robh
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response 159 of 280:
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Mar 9 02:49 UTC 1996 |
Re 157 - It's little. Very very little. We have more than
seventy *members*.
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adbarr
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response 160 of 280:
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Mar 9 02:58 UTC 1996 |
scg. your approach is perfect here. <adbarr doffs his hat> all re#145.
Nephi, tsty -- what do you feel? Believe? This has been -- what? tedious,
but instructive. Grex reminds me of the unwritten "constition" of England.
But, darn, it is frustrating at times. I see a "principle" evolving. This is
good, but the consensus should be memorialized.
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steve
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response 161 of 280:
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Mar 9 03:50 UTC 1996 |
Richard, I'll come up with some statistics on conference
participation. It's smaller than I'd like it to be. But
rather than driveling along I'll recreate the data and stuff it
in an item.
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davel
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response 162 of 280:
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Mar 10 00:38 UTC 1996 |
"recreate the data", heh. (I do know what you mean, STeve.)
kerouac, I have to agree with Rane. Coop is one place where restarts don't
make a whole lot of sense, IMO. Most conferences are primarily recreational,
and a fairly drastic restart doesn't do much damage. Coop matters - at least
as far as Grex matters. Having people jump into discussions without any idea
of the context really doesn't usually help a whole lot. I think it very
desirable to encourage more participation in coop, but I don't think the aim
is to get people to form opinions in a vacuum.
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carson
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response 163 of 280:
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Mar 10 13:36 UTC 1996 |
70 doesn't seem like a bad number to me, esp. given the fairly
recent restart... chances are that a higher percentage of that
number are somewhat active readers.
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popcorn
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response 164 of 280:
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Mar 10 21:41 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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rcurl
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response 165 of 280:
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Mar 10 23:31 UTC 1996 |
I don't see why having a lot of Items in coop is a problem for newusers.
They are only shown the ones with activity, which are relatively few. It
is the oldusers that might revive an earlier discussion, because
something/new has come up. I suppose one problem being alluded to is that
the whole cf runs slower if there are a lot of items - though I don't know
why that has to be. I can see trimming totally superceded Items (a topical
issue that has been resolved), but I'd like to be able to continue
discussions that havew died down for even a year or more, without having
to refer people back to the origins.
I see no useful objective to keep "whats current reasonably sleek
and streamlined". That's what the news media like to do, because of
short audience attention span. That's not the substance of due
consideration of complex issues.
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davel
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response 166 of 280:
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Mar 11 02:13 UTC 1996 |
(Re slowness of big conferences: it looks to me as though Picospan,
when you enter a cf, checks each item (fairly slowly) to see whether anything
new is there. The slowness with which this happens suggests that it's
actually reading each item to check for unread responses, though that seems
very unlikely on other grounds. Your participation file contains a timestamp
for each item, as well as a response #.)
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mdw
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response 167 of 280:
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Mar 11 04:47 UTC 1996 |
PicoSpan reads through the sum file, & stat's each linked item. Lots of
linked items will indeed slow things down. The reason it has to stat
each linked item is because it may have been changed in the other cf - &
hence the sum file information could be out of date. A large cf with
few linked items will be faster than a small cf with many linked items.
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carson
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response 168 of 280:
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Mar 12 12:17 UTC 1996 |
cool. I didn't know that. I'll go a-unlinkin' now! 8)
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tsty
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response 169 of 280:
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Mar 31 08:15 UTC 1996 |
Mystery solved about the changed login screen. For one, and as I did
point out somewhere above, root *certainly* was not the only power
available to effect the change. No root changed the login.
After a messy series of Grex-crashes whil nephi and I were diligently
discussing the situation - count 'em, 4! - and telentd not accepting
more logins (so we couldn't continue the discussion(s), and also an
incomplete exchange of email (nephi, true to the spirit of the tiny-link
to the outside world, doesn't have his email forwarded), nephi changed
the login and I changed it back very shortly thereafter.
And also, for the attentive, there have been several refinements, mostly
suggested in no-flame email, which were attentively respected and
incorporated. Some refinements *also*, I should point out, were suggested
and incorporated from responses to this and other items as well as
ftf contact.
We certainly are not "immune" from suggestions which foster accuracy
and/or the establishment adn maintenance of a level responding field
regarding how Grex should operate. Without stating openly that we are
seriously focused on diffusing the "Inner Circle" perception ... and
it has not been brought to light until now ... I believe that the login
screen performs that explicit function. Some of the above commentary
tends to suggest otherwise but we are ignoring that - as we should.
.
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nephi
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response 170 of 280:
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Mar 31 08:44 UTC 1996 |
(Er, nephi has his mail forwarded since Grex was just too slow. True to the
spirit of a small link, though, he makes sure that no external mailing lists
send mail to him at his Grex address.)
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adbarr
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response 171 of 280:
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Mar 31 13:02 UTC 1996 |
Does this qualify as a Grex Classic? It should.
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chelsea
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response 172 of 280:
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Mar 31 13:39 UTC 1996 |
The login screen is still too long, preachy, and redundant in
that location. And the Agora screen is too long and redundant
in that location. I know you mean well, TS, but I wish you'd
put in into the bulletin or item #1.
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scott
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response 173 of 280:
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Mar 31 14:05 UTC 1996 |
The login screen is not too long, and I like its content. I like seeing it
when I enter Coop, even if I don't think I need a reminder.
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dang
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response 174 of 280:
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Mar 31 22:02 UTC 1996 |
I also like the login screen here. I thought it was a good piece of work
when I first saw it, and it's improved. I realize that this is my
opinion, but since no (read few) positive responses were coming in, I
thought I'd add mine. (I telnet, and it doesn't seem to be too slow) I
do think that more frequent fw input would have bewen nice, tho.
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